#yesallwomen

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I didn't say that sexism is the sole preserve of men -- it isn't. But if you spend some time in these conversations with earnest people, it becomes clear pretty fast why the focus is on misogyny. Misandry, where it exists, doesn't usually leave guys shut out of jobs, robbed of pay, victims of violence, vilified both for having sex and for not having sex, blamed for their own rapes, vilified for having children and for not having children, vilified for making a living while having children, blamed for their children's father's abandoning the family...I mean this list does go on for quite some time. Unemployed/poor, abused, and vilified is not a great condition to be in.

You've got a problem in your parallel, above -- men *in fact* kill, rape, abuse, and otherwise victimise women in pretty good numbers. Victims of domestic violence are overwhelmingly women and they're not rare. And workplace harassment and discrimination is a very real phenomenon, with the trail of court cases, legislation, and HR practices to prove it. There are factual reasons why women fear men. It's not a matter of misconceptions.

A parallel to what I said above would be to task women with stopping other women from slagging off men on the basis of their being men, and to speak up when women sexually harass men, objectify them, or rob them of pay. In my experience, women in groups are actually quick to defend men, usually because they don't like to think of their own boyfriends, husbands, etc. as bad guys. So they will speak up and say, "Well, I don't think that's fair," or some such, or even, "I think that's kind of sexist." You can see this in comments all over feminist sites, btw, too. We're not generally afraid of being poorly thought of by other women when we do that. As for the other things -- speaking up when women harass men...you know, it just doesn't happen very often. Women don't usually create an environment of sexual harassment that male employees just have to live with or leave, and I've yet to hear of a woman boss systematically underpaying male employees.

I have seen a glass-ceiling warrior cut male students out of opportunities, and what I saw there was that even though she's quite powerful -- brings in a ton of money -- other women were more than willing to stand up to her about it and to speak to officials about it.

If guys were as willing to call out other men on sexism, rather than looking the other way or deciding it wasn't important, or that women should just deal, I think we'd see much less of it.

Yes, they must, but I hope they don't be labeled as chauvinist chivalrous knights for protecting women from bad men because some might confuse it with benevolent chauvinism. People should protect the vulnerable ones whether are women, men or kids.

I'm pretty sure a hashtag has never made a difference.

More power to em, though, I just think twitter is stupid and the only sole purpose of it's existance is to promote a celebrity.

Which is really needed is better parenthood, from the fathers more specifically.

Think about this for a moment - the bodies weren't even cold before people jumped on this bandwagon.

It doesn't seem to matter what nuances there are in any idlssue, this wave of feminism seems content with the exploitation of suffering and I cannot align myself with that. And no, this hashtag slacktivism is not helping. As a women, I don't like that I'm getting lumped in with this cospiratorial, paranoid fantasy, where patriarchy is some kind of organised crime syndicate controlling the minds of young impressionable men, as if they can't make their own damn decisions. For all this wave of feminism wants to point fingers and blame people, where's the blame for the actual criminal? By blaming
"dudebros", we're actually absolving him of any responsibility. I find that abhorrent and I will not associate with any form of feminism that thinks that is okay.

And, no, your run of the mill sexist asshat does not talk about murdering people! I mean, fine - discuss how problematic this whole "dudebro culture" is, but blaming these idiots for this tragedy in any way is guilt by association and its pathetic. Same f*****g tactic the MRM's. I thought feminists were meant to be better than that.

From that article you posted:


Sometimes my English comprehension skill fails me but....why hiring a woman would be felt like prostitution? If the best candidate to the job happens to be a woman then so be it. Is it only me or there's something very wrong in the above psychiatrist's reasoning?

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 26 May 2014, 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

My guess is his overwhelming entitlement would not accept anything other than women willingly spending time with him. He shouldn't have to pay a woman to spend time with him, whatever the reason - hell, they should be paying him, because he's the perfect gent. I obviously don't know if that was the case, but rather that might be what the psychiatrist has in mind.

Yeah, I'm not really surprised that he would look down upon prostitution as an option. He must have been so narcissistic that he assumed women should throw themselves at him.

The thing is though you have to look at society in its entirety through many contexts like historical, cultural, philosophical. This murderer was working under a set of ideas and assumptions put forth by our mainstream culture who have their ideas of what nobility and virtue are. These ideas can cross into different domains.

Quite honestly, our very culture is what will lead to our downfall in my opinion.

I have read some of the ideas behind feminism 101 put forth by StarvingArtist and it seems as though feminism is one of the ideas that attempts to see concepts and ideas that interrelate together as a whole.

To look at the fact that this guy was a narcissist and a murderer to me only gives a fraction of the story? What made him this way? How did he get to his conclusions?

His psychiatrist needs a psychiatrist.

His case is crystal clear now, his mind has a violence tendency to begin with, he lived in a snobbish community where promiscuity is seen as cool and sex seen as quest of coolness, he slipped into this quest and failed to "achieve" any sex, was always rejected maybe because of his AS traits or his attitude, I dunno, then he became jaded at women for rejecting him, he got obsessed into pua subculture and later into anti-pua forum (they are not really anti pua but angry that pua doesn't work) where they echo his bitter rantings toward women, combined with his psychatrist's views on women, all fueled his hatred to insane levels.

Oh, it's been quite surprising, the last couple of years, what they've done. This isn't the first real-life-for-women kind of hashtag, but it may be the first aimed at a broad audience. It's done quite a bit in narrow audiences before. And something about a lot of American troops in Nigeria.

I don't think anyone's absolving him of responsibility or saying that he was mind-controlled into doing this by MRAs. I'm certainly not, anyway. I am saying that a very f**ked-up boy found a ready and well-developed hate narrative, picked it up and made it his own, and let it carry him along to its logical conclusion: if women are the problem and you are supreme, destroy women. He missed the part where you're not supposed it take it so seriously you go around killing people. But he's not alone in that.

There's a whole library of these stories, all to do with humiliation, supremacy, and hate, and they do a great deal of damage. Because they give the unimaginative a focus and a plot to follow. The armageddon stories of white supremacists are doing nobody any favors; the yearners after John Galt have gotten an entire state in serious financial trouble; there's plenty of these things around and they're all sad and stupid and destructive. And some proportion of the people who pick them up and take them to heart will actually act them out.

That's the problem.

eta: I'm not just talking about murder. There's this terrible sad phenomenon in which guys who were just garden-variety woman-abusers, racists, what have you, will talk to some interviewer about how they just figured this is how it was, because it was what they were always told. That you have to beat a woman to get her to behave and treat you right, or the black man was stealing what was rightfully yours, etc. They actually bought this s**t. Shoot, I've heard it myself from the mouths of my students. Stood outside the college building once with a 50something ex-farmer who was talking in some muddle of perplexity and outrage about how he always learned that black shouldn't mix with white, and it was good enough for his daddy, and now here all these liberal professors were saying his daddy was wrong and the way he was brought up was wrong, and he was quite the agonised mess over it. This a week after he'd come up to me and offered to beat the s**t out of a black kid in the class, should the black kid make a move on me.

The stories don't control how people behave, but they do inform how people behave. They tell you how the world is.

who here is blaming "dudebros" for this shooting and not the shooter himself? please link the post where i or anyone said other men are more responsible for this crime than elliot rodger is.

You're still equating Elliot Rodgers the killer with all sexist asshats.. And you're ultimately equating Rodgers with the men here on Wrongplanet.

You're on a mission to dominate and shame all men.

Uh, no. Please remove the tinfoil hat and reread.