What is an appropriate age to date?

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Oh, that thread?

I believe a parent's responsibilities are wide-ranging enough as-is, so as a father I look to the shortest route possible to get the best results. I also have to look at things that will cut as much complexity out of life as I can so I can deal with it effectively.

Same principle applies in that other thread. I let that rabbit go, though. The reason why is I've come to the conclusion that girls/women have more to lose than boys do. I'm more likely to be overprotective of my daughter than I will my sons. If a boy interested in my daughter fails to approach me the right way about going out with her, I'll meet him at the door with a shotgun. If MY boys fail to approach another father about HIS daughter, he is free to respond in kind. Let HER parents worry, I say.

I'm aware that may appear hypocritical, but so be it. Parents can only do so much. This is a problem that can be fixed if we only attack from one side, i.e. if EVERY father was "overprotective" of his daughters and made boys jump through so many hoops to get to her, then you'd have more boys waiting until later to start dating as a consequence. Also, if it's that difficult to date my daughter, the creeps will slink off to find girls whose parents don't care so much. Let some other girl get pregnant and ruin her life. We don't do that in THIS house.

Now, as to what I DO teach my sons: I teach them THIS is how to respect women, and THIS is how you approach the parents. If HER folks aren't like a mom and a dad to you, you most likely need to leave her alone. If her folks are full of crap, even if she's a great girl, you'll eventually run into the problem of making her choose between her parents and you. If her parents suck and she can't choose you over her parents, you're going to have relationship issues, and it might even be cruel to make her choose (she has to WANT to choose you over her folks, and most people understandably have a problem with that). There are certain things you JUST DON'T DO, and if you knock her up, you're on your own, kiddo. I'm not bailing you out of jail, I'm not calling 911 if you get half your face blown off, I'm not paying your child support, and you'll be lucky if I visit you in prison twice a year. If the girl is crazy, I'm not letting her through the front door, so don't even ask. You get scarlet-lettered as a sex offender because you "thought" she was 18, it's out of my hands. As a boy, your best bet is the same as what I'd say to a girl: Get your big goals out of the way before dating.

So?maybe it sounds hypocritical on the surface, but the way our society works if a girl has a problem, she's stuck with it whereas boys are not. I have a HUGE problem with that, too. So if my boys gain a good understanding of the consequences of a foul-up and that's enough to deter them from disrespecting women, then my job here is done. And that's why I don't go out of my way to give other boys a lot of advice against dating. I could do it, and I think it's implied. I don't really have the kind of time to address both sides, so I prefer to pick these particular battles over others. This is a situation in which if you win one half of the battles, the other half will take care of themselves. Let someone else talk to the boys.

I don?t know what exactly counts as ?going out?. I suppose you?ll have to literally forbid her to go outside unless it?s to tightly controlled and preferably boy-free places (school?), or she?s chaperoned by you or someone you trust, just to make sure she isn?t secretly ?going out? with a boy.

In fact, this will likely prevent boys from getting to know her in the first place, thus eliminating the ?problem? altogether.



How much later? For most of history, what used to happen was not so much that people started ?dating? or having sex later in their lives, but that they became independent and married earlier. Adding to the mix the fact that many more people died young than they do now, if you were putting something off till you were 30, you might as well forget it for good.

This changed dramatically during the 20th century. Ironically, despite feminism and other modern ideas, parents have now more power than ever to stall their children?s development in so many areas of life, simply because it?s harder to get rid of them at a young age and not be seriously disadvantaged as a result (or even survive, depending on where and in what circumstances you were born). Still, if all the fathers did what you advocate for, it would probably encourage some rebellious daughters and sons to forgo a higher education or any other benefit their parents might give them and accept any miserable job in order to move out as soon as they legally can?or even illegally?so they can be free, make their own choices about whom they establish relationships with and start actually living their own life. A few of them will probably still pursue an education after taking this step, with all the hardships it?ll entail.

I suspect this will become harder and harder over time, however, with more and more people being essentially forced to live very much like children till they?re ridiculously old. The only way to keep stopping a daughter from dating, or choosing whom she dates, once she?s legally an adult, is to make sure she?s still too helpless to fend for herself without you. In other words, you, as a parent, will have to fail to make her a strong and independent person. Otherwise, she will choose, one way or the other.



So, apparently, respecting a woman has nothing at all to do with her will, but with her father?s. How do you approach her parents? Furthermore, how do you get to know her? Do you have to ask her father first, when you haven?t yet seen her? Or is this just an unnecessarily complicated way of saying, ?Just forget about interacting with anyone of the opposite sex, period??

I suppose mothers don?t have a say on the matter. Naturally, if they?ve been brought up themselves the way you seem to defend, they should be helpless, submissive housewives to be kept at home and ?protected? like precious furniture. Their husbands, as the breadwinners and protectors, get to make all the decisions.



I wonder what that even means. I?m sure my ideas of what being like a mom and a dad is differ too much from yours for me to understand.



That will also happen if she wants to be with you but her parents insist on opposing it.



It might also be cruel on the part of her parents. Most people have a problem with not being allowed to make their own choices and some will go to tragic lengths to be free.



Just like you don?t do a lot of other things which don?t get mentioned nearly so often. There are a lot of things you can do with a car without crashing it; there are a lot of intimate and satisfying things two lovers can do together without sperm ever coming close to her vagina, even if you eschew contraceptives because they?re not safe enough.



Most people aren?t very thrilled at the thought of letting their youth go down the drain before they have a chance to enjoy it. In other words, gathering rosebuds while they may is one of their big goals. Besides, getting them ?out of the way? is a process which takes longer and longer these days, no matter how well you do. Considering the vast array of things you can enjoy as long as you?re responsible, the importance of experience to enjoy some of them, which you won?t have time to acquire if you keep putting them off, and the fact that some of them you won?t be able to experience if it gets too late, I think most people deem it silly to forgo them for so many years, and I agree with this sentiment.



Really though? Once the baby is born, he should be held no less responsible than she is, unless there was some sort of deceit involved. I know this can get really messy to determine, so obviously the boy should never even come close to doing this sort of thing with a girl he doesn?t trust, and the same goes the other way round.

We?re probably close to the point when technology can enable women to turn on and off their reproductive capabilities reliably and at will. Some day it may be possible to have all girls? breeding mechanism routinely disabled before their teenage years, so they will only enable it again when they?re in a position to have kids and want to. I wonder what would happen in such a scenario. I?m sure many people would object to the use of such technology, simply because it?d let youngsters enjoy themselves a lot, and who wants that



I guess that?s the counterpart to modernmax?s reply in the other thread. Well, it?d be interesting, for a change, to see advocates of both sides of the matter discussing and addressing each other?s points, rather than simply repeating their own and acting like the other side doesn?t exist.

Thanks for the advice everyone!! I will take it into consideration....