Where do you draw the line between Withdrawing and Ghosting?

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It's considered inappropriate and wrong to beak up through a text or phone call and it's also considered a cowardly act.

Agreed…but at the end of the day you end up dumped, and, more importantly, you KNOW you've been dumped. When you fade someone, you don't even give them THAT.

Now…I will say this about fading. If the other person deeply offends you, like cracking jokes about your mom, or he or she is violent or otherwise abusive towards you and a real breakup might put you in danger, by all means fade 'em. Their behavior speaks for itself, and if the other person really wants an explanation, just looking in the mirror is explanation enough. It shouldn't take much effort for them to figure it out.

And three dates does not a relationship make. If you're dating a creep and you just met, you're under no real or implied obligation to return communication. We can just walk away and pretend it never happened. But if this has been an ongoing thing, as in you've been dating exclusively for a month and you just now realize you're "not feeling it," you need to pick one day over the weekend, spend an awesome DAY at the zoo, enjoy some ice cream or something, and say your goodbyes then. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, you're going to be slightly annoyed, but when that day is over, EVERYTHING is over. You put the lid on it. You took it out to the curb. You stuck a fork in it, it's DONE. You can't put a definite timetable on it. It might be easy, or it might not be. But when you finally go your separate ways, you're not getting back together.

Ideally that's how it works.

The phone/text one-liner is the Band-aid of breakups. Rip it off fast, pour iodine in the wound, and tell them to go play in the street. It IS cowardly, but it's effective. And, occasionally, it's frighteningly necessary.

But it's a BREAKUP. A fade is not a breakup. If you're that much of a coward, at least give that person SOMETHING.

I mentioned you don't owe anyone anything at all after a couple or three dates… I think an exception would be if you had sex. Even if it really was a one-nighter, I think you owe it to the other person to at least let them know it's not going to progress beyond that. "Yeah…last night was GREAT and all, but let's be honest--we were both a little drunk…ok, really, REALLY drunk…and this just isn't what I'm looking for in a relationship."

That makes no sense.

For me, you never owe anybody anything, and relationships should not be based on what you can get out of them, what you "owe", and alike. Similarly, if somebody cannot be exclusive during dating, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with them. For me, you don't go out mass-dating as many people as you can at the same time. That's a sign of desperation, or a sign that you are unwilling to commit to anything, and thus cannot be trusted.

And sex is for reproduction and has no role in a relationship.

Depends on what value you place on others. If you value human beings and don't want to hurt anyone, you'll feel that you do owe them SOMETHING. If you value basic human decency, you do feel you owe something to everyone in that regard.

It's not about what I feel I'm owed. It's what I feel I owe others. Decent people don't end LTRs by fading. Maybe you're under no REAL obligation to explicitly break up with someone or explain yourself. But if you don't, then YOU SUCK as a person. And that's really all I have to say about it.


Wow…that's a bit harsh, isn't it? I would say it's a sign that someone doesn't want to make promises they don't think they can keep. Maybe you're right…they can't be trusted. I just prefer someone shoot straight with me and say, "hey, I'm just not ready for a relationship right now." Fine. We know where we stand. We can have an ongoing relationship as friends and see whether it leads to something down the road. And if she's seeing some other guy this weekend, no big deal…I went out with her cousin two weeks ago, so maybe I'll give her a call...


You do understand a lot of people will disagree with you on that, right? There's the emotional, physical, and (I'd say) spiritual bond of it. I'd say you gotta be some kind of callous to do a one-night NSA thing with someone and walk away completely unaffected. You can SAY it's just pleasure, or just reproduction, or whatever…but intuitively most people don't feel it that way.

I WOULD say that it clutters the relationship if you aren't committed, as in a lifelong commitment (marriage). I think it too often creates an expectation that more people than are willing to admit can't really handle--not to mention the obvious risks. Even if we're being honest about it, that won't necessarily stop us. I struggled with that in my younger years, largely because we're sexual beings and it's wrong-headed to put boys and girls together and think nothing is going to happen. It's best NOT to get into a sexual relationship. But because so many people do jump so quickly into bed with each other, I think you need an understanding that this is going somewhere beyond "just friends." A decent person wouldn't do that to begin with. But if you're going to be the kind of person who does, have at least enough decency to wake up next to the person you slept with the night before. Have some pancakes and coffee, say you had a great time, but it's probably NOT going to happen again. It might be understood from the get-go, but that's just one of those things that really needs to be verbalized. Don't just disappear.

I've never broken an LTR, and I'm pretty sure I never will. For me, relationships are not broken-up. You might spend more time on your own, or with other people, but you never break-up in my world. That's part of the social game in the NT-world that I don't want to participate in. Just like you don't break up with a friend for no obvious reason, I don't think you should do that to a partner either. Serial-monogamy just isn't for me.



The traditional dating "platform" enforces this shallow view of "dating". It seems to work just like the NT-social system and it is really just a social game and nothing else. I don't accept that relationships are just a social game, so I don't accept traditional dating as a useful method to meet a potential partner. And because it is a social game similar to shallow friends and acquaintances, I feel I cannot trust people that engage in it. Because shallow friends and acquaintances only value you because they feel you have something to offer them, and when they no longer need this or somebody else can better provide for it, they'll move on. I certainly don't want to invest time and energy in building a strong attachment to somebody that reasons like this, because I'll get burned sooner or later.

In fact, the main thing I want to evaluate in any potential partner is their persistence, not if we have compatible social views and superficial interests.



That's totally alien to me. First, I cannot be friends with somebody I have a romantic interest in, and second I certainly cannot swap her for some of her friends or relatives. If I could do the latter trick, it would just show me that I didn't take it seriously, because if I did I would be exclusive.



I sure do, but some do agree with me.



Not for me. For me, sexual intercourse is only a mechanical act of creating children that is disgusting in all other contexts. Bonding is a long-term process of showing affection without any anticipation of what will come out of it, and voluntarily being exclusive during the whole process. If a potential partner breaks those rules, I feel I don't want to have anything to do with them, and I'll regard them as long-term enemies. This is also the whole problem with neurodiverse attachments in traditional dating contexts. During the process of building them I'm exclusive, and if the other part decides to move on, I'm not able to cope with that and I will stay exclusive long after they broke up, possibly wasting years on somebody that has no interest. That is, unless I regard them as long-term enemies.



I've never done a one-night-stand, and I feel the whole thing is extremely disgusting.

I'm not sure if he is an ass or not. I think it is pretty rude not to answer you. I don't find that ok, ASD or not. At least he could have the decency of giving you a reply, even if it is only a word or two.



I find it unlikely he is not answering you because he is shutdown. If he was, he wouldn't read your messages.

I can cope with not seeing somebody I'm attached to for months, but I would never even consider not answering them if they texted me. That's rude beyond words. So, no, I don't think he does this to you because of ASD issues.

I prefer the term "conventional dating," as in how most people tend to date at present time. Depending on the tradition, "traditional" dating died a long time ago. In my opinion, right or wrong, I see affluent American dating of the 1950's as a sort of Golden Age of dating. People of that socio-economic class among more suburban conservatives tended to go what I feel was a more sensible direction. A date was just a date. I wish that were more the present attitude, but alas, it is not.

There are TONS of problems with our current system of dating, LTR, and marriage. Don't even get me started…we'll be here all day. I'd like to see a complete revision of dating in practice that involves both families in the process. Trouble is, even if that's what the kids wanted, which they don't seem to do, parents just either don't care or are maybe unaware that they have the power to get involved. I know my dream is unrealizable for anyone else other than myself or my children…but I can always try! But there is absolutely no need whatsoever to rush into exclusive relationships. NONE.


That's just human nature, though. Everyone wants something. Give them what they want. The sad part is being honest and admitting that sometimes what someone wants happens to exclude you. Forget about what YOU want. Derive your joy from the joy of others, making others happy and serving them inasmuch as you possibly can within reason. If I can get ONE girl to smile at me on any given day, THAT is my victory.

I view all human relations essentially the same…I see no difference in principle between potential love interests, friends, and likes on Youtube or +1's on Google+. Yes, I want to offer my own music to the world. Why not? I think my music can benefit others on some level, so I don't think I should keep it to myself. And I know I've reached people when they start subscribing to my channel or following me on G+. However, my mission is not to benefit myself or become popular. My mission is to benefit others in the most positive way I can. In order to do that, I spend a lot more time listening to the music of others, giving out likes, comments, and +'s. I do keep a handwritten journal of those (what do I suggest people do just starting out with dating?).

And you know what happens? They follow me. They subscribe. They + and like my vids. Every now and then someone will share something or add it to a playlist. I don't even ask. I don't ask because that's not why I'm here. But they do that. I'm not going viral by any means, but I do have over 100 followers on my G+. Not thousands, but 100 followers since I started doing this back in November. Not because I asked them to, but because I was nice to them and they see something they like. You want the secret to popularity, well…there it is. Those are 100 friends I didn't have before. Just be nice. Give people what they want. Don't worry about what YOU want. People will show up and hand you whatever you want and you don't have to ask. They'll take good care of you. Because they think you're awesome and they want you to keep being awesome to others. Heck yeah, they'll come out of the woodwork for that. Most people will.

I'm telling you, dating is NO DIFFERENT. Find out what interests girls and pursue it. You'll be fighting them off if you get good at it. Once you're own interests creep into the picture, you're DONE. So unless you're actually interested in exactly the same things, keep you to yourself. If she's interested in you, by all means talk about yourself. Keep it shorter than my WP posts (shouldn't be too difficult) and throw the ball back into her court. I'd like to see more people struggle with who NOT to date or get into a relationship with. Conventional dating seems, I dunno…pretty bleak by comparison.


I don't think it's worth taking THAT seriously. I think two people do eventually reach a sort of relational event horizon when they're seeing each other more than anyone else and they lose interest in other people. It's just the way humans are built. We tend to pair up eventually, whether we're making the effort or not. You put boys and girls together, what happens shouldn't be a surprise. But initially? No…I don't think it's a good idea to put your heart and soul into any one single person.


Some…sure. And, too, keep in mind I don't believe I speak for everyone. I'm not going to deny I have an extreme philosophy of dating that's not universally applicable. You have unique goals in dating. You're doing something that works for you. Most people DO tend to jump into exclusive relationships. Most people also experience a lot of drama in relationships at some point, and not necessarily drama that ends positively. I want to see people take more time getting to know others and make more careful choices about who they want to spend a significant portion of their lives with. I don't see how conventional dating accomplishes this. But I also recognize it isn't my place to make up peoples' minds for them. Do what you feel is right for you. If you have a lot of the typical problems with meeting folks, I think my suggestions will solve a lot of that.


I'm very sorry…I understand that you do feel this way, and I understand you aren't alone here. But this isn't applicable to the kinds of people who view relationships differently from you, so I'm having trouble taking anything after that very seriously.


I've done that ONCE, and it was a very weird set of circumstances that I'm not going to dwell on. There's just some things other people don't need to know. I don't think she'd appreciate me going public with that.

There was this other fling I had, I think we slept together maybe 4 or 5 times, though, hardly a one-night thing. I'm not exactly proud of that.

In general, I'd prefer to steer people away from sex outside some kind of commitment. People won't listen to me on this one, and I can live with that…but I just don't think it's necessary in most relationships. Marriage, YES. If you wanted to set physical intimacy as a must-have condition for a relationship, you're free to do that. But depending on what you really want out of a relationship, it probably more often than not does more harm than good. That said, though, there's no replacement for it.

I should point out that being exclusive during "dating" (the contact phase) doesn't necessarily mean you are or will end up in an exclusive relationship. The contact phase is just that. The phase when you get to know each others, whether verbal or nonverbal. Being exclusive during this phase does not imply you always will end up in an exclusive relationship. It just means you take it seriously and are not doing it with others as well at the same time. It is kind of similar to that you are not allowed to submit scientific manuscripts to multiple journals at the same time and thus waste the time of peer-reviewers and editors.



Kind of similar to my Aspie Quiz. I work on it in order to provide the best possible test, and people like it and share it so I can use it as a research tool. That's fine with me, but I don't want it to be that way in a relationship.



I'm pretty popular with the ladies (also those that are considerably younger than me) on the dance floor. They frequently give me big smiles afterwards, and it feels nice. I have a few favorites for especially demanding dances that I know I can ask and that are willing and able. However, if I was single, I wouldn't view any of these as relationship material. They are my friends, not my potential romantic partners.



I don't think I'm able to control this. I'm exclusive during the contact phase, and then after a while in a relationship I'm able to fall in love with somebody new (polyamory). The exclusive phase seems to end once I'm in a relationship. That's the opposite of how typical people are.

Hi TornadoEvil, I don't know if this will help you - my last year with my ex was on and off and it was a roller coaster ride. The good times were good, and so I stayed for those but he always left me hanging, come back and apologize or I would be the one to contact him... then the cycle repeats. In the end, he got violent and I decided it had to stop. I kept myself busy by working out, baking, and doing other activities. I became depressed at one point too, but keeping myself busy helped me get over it (I never contacted him again).

I am not saying you should terminate your relations with your friend, but maybe if you keep yourself busy, it would help you grant her wishes to give her space.

With NT guys (none of them I am aware of being ASD, at least), if I sense that there is a chance they are playing games, I tell them straight out that they are not going to get what they want (sex) and they're just wasting their time. I've had a guy eventually admit that he is talking/seeing other women and said he just wants to talk to me and be friends (first) if that's what I want. So, we became friends but it didn't really turn into anything. I guess what I am trying to say is, after my dysfunctional relationship with my ex and working with a lot of men, I have learned to become more selective. I am spending a lot of energy on this guy, trying to figure him out, well, because he has ASD and I do not want to judge him when I don't understand ASD. Also, I am finding it hard to believe that this guy who has been really patient and has not manipulated me into giving in to him physically, who seemed enthusiastic to see me each time, who is very compassionate (likes to do volunteer work on the weekends)...(other nice things..etc.), is really an ass who is just leaving me hanging because he is not interested anymore.

He has mentioned that he's been traumatized by an ex before. I sure hope that this is not him thinking that we were getting into deep, and he is not projecting this traumatic experience on me. But then again, maybe I am just too into him now that I am finding excuses for his behaviors like my friends are saying.

How about not talking to me but checking me out on LinkedIn, checking messaging apps if I've been online (or possibly checking if I have more messages)? I really don't understand this behavior. It's as if he has something to say but can't say it.



Thanks AngelRho. How about if I show up at his doorstep with notification but without him replying to take back my belongings? Is it possible that he would feel attacked and have a meltdown? I do not want this to happen. I've never seen him have a meltdown, but I want to avoid that possibility. I'm still trying to figure out how I should deal with this, I am also giving it a little bit more time.

I really liked this guy, it is disappointing to say the least. I've read other threads (about NT women asking for advice) and it looks like this type of thing does happen with ASD (disappearing for months), and he has done it before. What's frustrating is that I've already reached out and he has not said one word. I completely agree that it is rude, I am not sure if it's possible to be on the spectrum and not realize this. He is a very sensitive person himself, and I would think that he would realize this.

My ex also told me we would always be friends and we were still talking after we split up but not as much and he told me he was just busy but he kept on excluding me and not answering his phone and he wasn't like this when we first met and when we were together. It was very hurtful what he did to me and my mom told me he had moved on so I felt relieved because it meant I could move on too. I felt trapped when he was impossible to reach and it was like I couldn't date other guys or else it's cheating and in a way I was cheating on him because I hated being alone and feeling like I am single. I did want to break up with him then but couldn't because we were never seeing each other and he was so darn impossible to reach so the break up was impossible and I couldn't do it on the phone through voice mail. I am sure he knew I wanted to break up with him because I put my dating profile back up online and he did say we would always be friends so it was confusing what he did. Then he messages me seven months later after being silent and then I never hear from him again. He did message me a few months later after he saw I had a new boyfriend who is now my husband and he went silent again until Thanksgiving and that was the last I ever heard from her. I don't get this behavior. My husband guessed he came back to see if I was single again and to get back together and I said to him why would he want me? I was too immature for him. My husband also guesses he realized he screwed up and was hurt I was still with him. He even said we were incompatible and I wonder if that was the break up there and I didn't know that because he never said "We should break up" and I would have said yes if he did and it would have been a lot easier I bet. It would have avoided all the hurt and the constant phone calls from me and the anxiety and stress.

Here: Withdrawing ___________ Ghosting

Hi there The_Face_of_Boo, fair enough...

Hopefully you're a less confused gal now.

I am confused.. was there an official break up the first time, before he said you will always be friends? It's probably inappropriate for me to bring this back up for you since you are now married, but, the disappearing act that your ex didn't seem unusual from the threads that I've read. Some explanations have been, they over analyze the situation... they catastrophize.. (You did mention that your ex is an Aspie) although, I can't say for sure, that my situation is the same.

Regardless, I'm glad that you were able to move on from it. It sucks being in the grey area. Being there has caused me bad anxiety as well and I became depressed in the past.

I won't let that happen this time, but I am giving this a reasonable amount of effort and energy. In my situation though, there was no breakup (we were only seeing each other for two months but I would say it was a considerable amount of time). I just simply did not hear from him when I went on my business trip, although we did text a little bit initially. I would like to think of it as something that was budding, he was even considering flying out to visit me overseas during the trip and in my head I was thinking it was too soon. He was the one who would bring up conversations about settling down, future goals (in general, not necessarily with me, but most guys would run if this kind of topic was even remotely implied). I took a step back to re-assess what was going on and realized he was actually the one who was moving fast and yet he was the one who disappeared. It is usually the other way around so it is really baffling to me. I have attempted to reach him once/twice a week thinking it's enough to encourage, but not overwhelm him but nope... no response.