A Self-Made-Man girl discovers that life as a man is harder

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The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Jul 2015, 3:09 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
You know you suck when ... someone of the opposite sex, who was raised and has always lived as the opposite gender, performs orders of magnitude better as your own gender than you ever will.



Meaning?



Spiderpig
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15 Jul 2015, 3:13 pm

I don't know what you mean by that question.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Jul 2015, 3:27 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
I don't know what you mean by that question.


I am not sure if I got you, but she didn't perform better as a man than most men, in fact, she eventually got depressed and almost cracked.



Spiderpig
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15 Jul 2015, 3:54 pm

I wasn't talking about most men. Those were my impressions, and she certainly ran circles around me as a man. Going on thirty dates in a year and a half is impressive enough to me, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

I may have a slightly more masculine build than she appeared to have, and be about two inches taller, none of which means any merit on my part, because I was simply born this way. In absolutely every other regard, she pwn3d me.


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nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 4:02 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Take that, deniers! :lol:


This is a precious, a very precious experiment, I wonder if they did a filmed documentary about it.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Entertainmen ... id=1526982

Quote:
Her experience with these men turned some of her long-held perceptions about men being harsh and rejecting and women being warm and welcoming upside down.


Quote:
Vincent even dabbled in the art of picking up women and agreed to wear a hidden camera for "20/20" during her exploits.

She was quickly reminded that in this arena, it's women who have the power, she said.

"In fact, we sit there and we just with one word, 'no,' will crush someone," she said. "We don't have to do the part where you cross the room and you go up to a stranger that you've never met in the middle of a room full of people and say the first words. And those first words are so hard to say without sounding like a cheeseball or sounding like a jerk."

Vincent encountered some pretty cold shoulders in her attempts at the bar, but she did manage to go on about 30 dates with women as "Ned," mostly arranging them on the Internet.

Vincent said the dates were rarely fun and that the pressure of "Ned" having to prove himself was grueling. She was surprised that many women had no interest in a soft, vulnerable man.


Quote:
"My prejudice was that the ideal man is a woman in a man's body. And I learned, no, that's really not. There are a lot of women out there who really want a manly man, and they want his stoicism," she said.


Quote:
"Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have, but they don't have it better," she said. "They need our sympathy. They need our love, and maybe they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together."

Ironically, Vincent said, it took experiencing life as a man for her to appreciate being a woman. "I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege."


Boo, there's a book she wrote about it too that I read - pretty good (it's been awhile since I read it). The book is called "Self-made Man".


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nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 4:11 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
"“Living as a man taught me a lot about the things I most enjoyed about being a woman in the world, things I consider to be the privileges of womanhood—the emotional freedom, the range of expression, the sexual and social power we can exercise over men. Returning to my life as a woman was about reclaiming those privileges and taking greater satisfaction in them. Here’s one small example, which may sound hopelessly old-fashioned and silly, but it made me smile so warmly: The other day a clerk in a store turned to me and apologized for having to refer to pornography in front of me during a discussion he was having with a male customer. I found it very thoughtful and sweet. When a man does something like this now, I connect again with all the vulnerability that I felt as a man in front of women, and I remember all the conversations I had with the men in my men’s group about their need to take care of and protect women. Not all men behave the way this clerk did, of course, but nonetheless I feel a deep sense of the respect that men like him have for women and I feel grateful for it. It’s nice to feel that someone is looking out for you, or trying to, and worries about offending or debasing you even in speech, and this is something I never felt as a man.

It took me months. Probably a good six months to really get back into being a woman. And this is partly because I had some unpacking to do. It wasn’t just a matter of returning to myself, because I am a different person now than I was before I embarked on this project. I feel more womanly now, more in touch with my femininity, than I ever did before I lived as Ned, and that has taken some getting used to, though it has been very pleasant.

I don’t miss anything about being Ned. The few social advantages I discovered in manhood—the swagger, the self-confidence, the entitlement—I’ve learned to incorporate into my life as a woman. Everything else I was happy to discard.”

-Norah Vincent on being Ned for 1.5 year"


I have to disagree with having "emotional freedom" as a woman. If women are emotional, they are said to be *itchy or having PMS or bipolar.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Jul 2015, 4:21 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
I wasn't talking about most men. Those were my impressions, and she certainly ran circles around me as a man. Going on thirty dates in a year and a half is impressive enough to me, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

I may have a slightly more masculine build than she appeared to have, and be about two inches taller, none of which means any merit on my part, because I was simply born this way. In absolutely every other regard, she pwn3d me.


Well, remember she's a NT, and obviously a sociable one, she's also a writer so she's more articulate than the average person. And she's a lesbian, so she had already some experience in dealing with women before, but even her admitted that those dates were rarely fun- just see her facial expression when she said "my god, not again" when that girl was acting cold and mean to her (apparently because she didn't find Net attractive), and I guess those few who still wanted to pursue her after knowing her gender, are either bi or closet bi.

It would be interesting to see what she wrote in her dating profile and first messages, we'll see if she did in her book.



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15 Jul 2015, 4:23 pm

I'd feel silly apologizing to a woman for mentioning porn in front of her. Most likely, she'll have lots more experience than I do in every aspect of life, including all the crude ones.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Jul 2015, 4:25 pm

nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
"“Living as a man taught me a lot about the things I most enjoyed about being a woman in the world, things I consider to be the privileges of womanhood—the emotional freedom, the range of expression, the sexual and social power we can exercise over men. Returning to my life as a woman was about reclaiming those privileges and taking greater satisfaction in them. Here’s one small example, which may sound hopelessly old-fashioned and silly, but it made me smile so warmly: The other day a clerk in a store turned to me and apologized for having to refer to pornography in front of me during a discussion he was having with a male customer. I found it very thoughtful and sweet. When a man does something like this now, I connect again with all the vulnerability that I felt as a man in front of women, and I remember all the conversations I had with the men in my men’s group about their need to take care of and protect women. Not all men behave the way this clerk did, of course, but nonetheless I feel a deep sense of the respect that men like him have for women and I feel grateful for it. It’s nice to feel that someone is looking out for you, or trying to, and worries about offending or debasing you even in speech, and this is something I never felt as a man.

It took me months. Probably a good six months to really get back into being a woman. And this is partly because I had some unpacking to do. It wasn’t just a matter of returning to myself, because I am a different person now than I was before I embarked on this project. I feel more womanly now, more in touch with my femininity, than I ever did before I lived as Ned, and that has taken some getting used to, though it has been very pleasant.

I don’t miss anything about being Ned. The few social advantages I discovered in manhood—the swagger, the self-confidence, the entitlement—I’ve learned to incorporate into my life as a woman. Everything else I was happy to discard.”

-Norah Vincent on being Ned for 1.5 year"


I have to disagree with having "emotional freedom" as a woman. If women are emotional, they are said to be *itchy or having PMS or bipolar.


Well, look how I see it.

She is probably, one of the very few humans in human history who has ever experienced both worlds first hand.

So what she says has way more credibility than what you say. No offense. :P



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 15 Jul 2015, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 4:25 pm

This is what she looked like during the experiment - not bad.

Image


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nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 4:26 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
"“Living as a man taught me a lot about the things I most enjoyed about being a woman in the world, things I consider to be the privileges of womanhood—the emotional freedom, the range of expression, the sexual and social power we can exercise over men. Returning to my life as a woman was about reclaiming those privileges and taking greater satisfaction in them. Here’s one small example, which may sound hopelessly old-fashioned and silly, but it made me smile so warmly: The other day a clerk in a store turned to me and apologized for having to refer to pornography in front of me during a discussion he was having with a male customer. I found it very thoughtful and sweet. When a man does something like this now, I connect again with all the vulnerability that I felt as a man in front of women, and I remember all the conversations I had with the men in my men’s group about their need to take care of and protect women. Not all men behave the way this clerk did, of course, but nonetheless I feel a deep sense of the respect that men like him have for women and I feel grateful for it. It’s nice to feel that someone is looking out for you, or trying to, and worries about offending or debasing you even in speech, and this is something I never felt as a man.

It took me months. Probably a good six months to really get back into being a woman. And this is partly because I had some unpacking to do. It wasn’t just a matter of returning to myself, because I am a different person now than I was before I embarked on this project. I feel more womanly now, more in touch with my femininity, than I ever did before I lived as Ned, and that has taken some getting used to, though it has been very pleasant.

I don’t miss anything about being Ned. The few social advantages I discovered in manhood—the swagger, the self-confidence, the entitlement—I’ve learned to incorporate into my life as a woman. Everything else I was happy to discard.”

-Norah Vincent on being Ned for 1.5 year"


I have to disagree with having "emotional freedom" as a woman. If women are emotional, they are said to be *itchy or having PMS or bipolar.


Well, look how I see it.

She is probably, one of the very few humans in human history who has experienced both worlds first hand.

So what she says has way more credibility than what you say. No offense. :P


That because women need someone to represent them - a man to dress like a woman. Can you help us Boo? :lol:


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tombo12boar
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15 Jul 2015, 4:30 pm

I think any young, vulnerable-looking man who has been around gay man a lot has had the "woman experience" , myself!



nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 4:31 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
I wasn't talking about most men. Those were my impressions, and she certainly ran circles around me as a man. Going on thirty dates in a year and a half is impressive enough to me, and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

I may have a slightly more masculine build than she appeared to have, and be about two inches taller, none of which means any merit on my part, because I was simply born this way. In absolutely every other regard, she pwn3d me.


What's "pwn3d" mean?


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Jul 2015, 4:32 pm

I have read similar stories from transgenders who went from one gender to another, but transgenders might still be somehow biased - because they always felt they belong to the other gender than the one they were born with.

Norah' story, is the first one I came across about seeing life as a man from a woman's eyes and always self-identified as woman.



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15 Jul 2015, 4:36 pm

nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
"“Living as a man taught me a lot about the things I most enjoyed about being a woman in the world, things I consider to be the privileges of womanhood—the emotional freedom, the range of expression, the sexual and social power we can exercise over men. Returning to my life as a woman was about reclaiming those privileges and taking greater satisfaction in them. Here’s one small example, which may sound hopelessly old-fashioned and silly, but it made me smile so warmly: The other day a clerk in a store turned to me and apologized for having to refer to pornography in front of me during a discussion he was having with a male customer. I found it very thoughtful and sweet. When a man does something like this now, I connect again with all the vulnerability that I felt as a man in front of women, and I remember all the conversations I had with the men in my men’s group about their need to take care of and protect women. Not all men behave the way this clerk did, of course, but nonetheless I feel a deep sense of the respect that men like him have for women and I feel grateful for it. It’s nice to feel that someone is looking out for you, or trying to, and worries about offending or debasing you even in speech, and this is something I never felt as a man.

It took me months. Probably a good six months to really get back into being a woman. And this is partly because I had some unpacking to do. It wasn’t just a matter of returning to myself, because I am a different person now than I was before I embarked on this project. I feel more womanly now, more in touch with my femininity, than I ever did before I lived as Ned, and that has taken some getting used to, though it has been very pleasant.

I don’t miss anything about being Ned. The few social advantages I discovered in manhood—the swagger, the self-confidence, the entitlement—I’ve learned to incorporate into my life as a woman. Everything else I was happy to discard.”

-Norah Vincent on being Ned for 1.5 year"


I have to disagree with having "emotional freedom" as a woman. If women are emotional, they are said to be *itchy or having PMS or bipolar.


Well, look how I see it.

She is probably, one of the very few humans in human history who has experienced both worlds first hand.

So what she says has way more credibility than what you say. No offense. :P


That because women need someone to represent them - a man to dress like a woman. Can you help us Boo? :lol:


I am too hairy for that, ask the members who saw my pic how hairy I am.



nurseangela
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15 Jul 2015, 4:40 pm

You know from the book I found out that the way men act is actually because other men expect them to act like that and even their father's brought them up to be "manly". In the section about sex, she hits on the way the men that she hung around thought about women. An example of this was the four "F's" - Find'em, Feel'em, F**k'em, Forget'em.

This book would be good for both sexes to read because she told about both sides of the coin.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.