article on the difference between wanting and entitlement

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Altruism isn't always important in a Darwinian society to have successful relationships, in fact being good isn't a requirement to get what you want in life. Being good or selfless should be a reward in itself and not a vehicle to personal gain.

Social power and leverage are far more important than altruism when it comes to relationships.

What I get out of the whole "nice guy" thing is that feminists still want to date the people they already find most attractive not the ones that simply appeases and there is limited overlap between these two groups thus a lot of frustrated guys. The reality is that we live in an unequal society, they oppose a "commodity based model of sex" but that is the nature of world so it makes as much sense as opposing as the nature of homosexuals. A "performance model" like playing music or dancing together is just kind of silly unrealistic dogma that will forever make them unhappy and unfulfilled. The advice that you should find a hobby is just another way of saying you need to develop a social network to be considered attractive which is in itself a commodity. Any advice you could give a person would back that commodity model, any improvement in yourself at all.

Feminists want equality. The criteria by which an individual woman chooses to date (or not date) an individual man varies from individual woman to individual woman (and individual man to individual man).

You just sound pissed and aggrieved that to date no individual woman has been willing to date you ... also unrelated to feminism in any way, shape or form.

If you want a relationship and haven't found one through your existing social network or online, getting a hobby to expand your social network and perhaps find a relationship through the power of "weak ties" (a la Malcolm Gladwell) seems like a pretty solid strategy. And, yes, it involves being smart/funny/interesting/whatever enough that someone likes you enough to want to spend time with you and maybe date you. It's not like you're entitled to a relationship for existing nor is it enough to tick boxes (hygienic, stylish, employed) and expect that to magically throw girls at your feet!

What I find the most irritating is that being "nice" or "mean" are both wrong to them.
nice = submissive, desperate, unassertive, no confidence
mean = bitter, misogynist, woman hater, rapist

Feminists want equality. The criteria by which an individual woman chooses to date (or not date) an individual man varies from individual woman to individual woman (and individual man to individual man).

You just sound pissed and aggrieved that to date no individual woman has been willing to date you ... also unrelated to feminism in any way, shape or form.

If you want a relationship and haven't found one through your existing social network or online, getting a hobby to expand your social network and perhaps find a relationship through the power of "weak ties" (a la Malcolm Gladwell) seems like a pretty solid strategy. And, yes, it involves being smart/funny/interesting/whatever enough that someone likes you enough to want to spend time with you and maybe date you. It's not like you're entitled to a relationship for existing nor is it enough to tick boxes (hygienic, stylish, employed) and expect that to magically throw girls at your feet!

Have you ever met a man whom you've found DECENT?

I would love to read that sort of anecdote from you.

Yes, there are decent guys out there who do not feel entitled, do not believe in the Patriarchy, and believe women are their partners rather than their trophies.

Have you ever met a man whom you've found DECENT?

I would love to read that sort of anecdote from you.

Yes, there are decent guys out there who do not feel entitled, do not believe in the Patriarchy, and believe women are their partners rather than their trophies.

It seems a lot of feminists just want all the rights for themselves....I mean I have heard outright hate of the male sex coming from feminists as if they think the world would do better if women were the only sex. I think feminism just allows the breeding ground for that kind of extremist thinking anymore....especially given that women do have equal rights. Why not actually look at the big picture and improve issues that face both males and females rather than trying to twist everything into being specifically designed to 'keep women down'...feminism has become stagnant.

And who the hell said anything about expecting girls to magically be thrown at their feet, appears you are also putting words in peoples mouths.....is that what they teach you at feminism university?

And having sex is nothing like playing music with people or other typical social activities...so expecting people to see it that way is ridiculous.

LeelaLeela:

What about the guy who is doing all the right things to be as physically and mentally attractive as possible, but is still failing and is simply venting his frustrations (which is healthy as not only do human beings feel these emotions but it's better than bottling it up).

Imho:

Entitled = I deserve women no matter what.

Not entitled = I'm doing all the right things, but still not seeing any results. It's not women's fault, and I'm not angry at those that are considered 'less attractive' by social/cultural standards, but just frustrated.

Thing is, it takes time, dedication, effort and money not just in relationships, but life in general. And if you use all these things in your life and still find no results, it's natural to feel frustrated.

Compare getting a relationship to getting a job.

Entitled = I deserve a job no matter what. Even if I don't have the right qualification I am an extremely friendly person so the job should be mine.

Not entitled = I work hard, I have the correct degree, I have the necessary skills required for the job, I'm extremely friendly and easy to work with, I respect authority, etc. yet I still don't have the job. I've applied to many, many places in my field and yet it's been two years.

People have every right to feel angry or frustrated over lack of success sometimes.

So, a successful social life is earned by being a nice, good and interesting, positive person? Well, some of us are all of those things, yet we still have a tiny number of friends while a large number of 'a55høles' congregate together and are all magnetized to each other.

My ex-girlfriend is a wonderful example. She was extremely selfish, over-dramatic, would always take things the wrong way, extremely aggressive, and overall an absolutely hateable person. Yet me, a caring, kind, compassionate guy she was the best I could do, and yet she manages to get a new boyfriend/relationship (a 21 year old in fact) 3 DAYS after we broke up.

Should I really never ever feel annoyed bullsh*t like this happens in the world? Do I feel entitled to a woman/happy relationship? No, not at all. But when any old deadbeat criminal thief hobo redneck bogan grubby drug-addict G.I. skinny man can go through dozens of good relationships while even the most attractive of aspies can't, then there's clearly a problem here.

Maybe it's just 'life is unfair'. Though the world doesn't become more fair if we just ignore the issue and continue to live a life being treated unfairly. Life is unfair, sure, but whoeever said we can't MAKE it fair? And how do we do that?

By consistently deciding to be polite, helpful, kind, selfess, considerate, compassionate people in this world that tolerate and care for others.

I completely agree with Marshall on this one. Life's unfair and that sucks, and it's the reason why some people are so happy through no effort while other people who really are trying are so miserable.

Instead of criticizing people who complain life is unfair and basically telling them to shut up, why don't we give them some constructive criticism - by asking them 'Life's unfair, but what are YOU going to DO about it?'

Once more people learn to do this, perhaps the world would be a much better place.

Tons. Few on this board, plenty in real life. Boyfriend I'm quite fond of, three of my closest friend are men I've known forever.

I don't see men as trophies, don't date guys who see girls as trophies.

I certainly don't hang out with men who rant that the supposedly evil feminists stole their jobs/dignity/whatever's! Because they didn't!

Katy is the kind of person who closes her ears so hard and sings "LA LA LA LA I DON'T HEAR YOU".

She feels so entitled to her 'right' of bitchy behavior :p.

I don't think my behavior's bitchy but, hey, "she's not a people person" (and I'm soooo not, kind of inevitable if you're an Aspie) is something I used to get told all.the.time as a kid!