Men Want to Fix Things but Women Don't?

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Varelse
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19 Nov 2015, 10:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
A pretty cogent analysis :D


Thank you :)



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19 Nov 2015, 2:13 pm

Varelse wrote:
An alternate view: most (but not all) women have been socialized to focus on the process of negotiation as a strategy for fixing things and getting results. The list you have, and her 'need for a hug' are different strategies for fixing a perceived need you both share - to strengthen the relationship so that it satisfies both of your needs.

She may unconsciously believe, due to socially mediated programming starting in early life, that physical intimacy 'makes things better' whereas you have been socialized to believe that listing the problems and taking concrete steps to fix them will lead to a better result.

You both have idealized processes for fixing things, but they're different, based on differing ideas about how results are achieved. What could help is negotiation. Or maybe see if she can come up with her own list, and you can develop the habit of giving hugs before they're requested?

Also, it could be that her social network of female friends (assuming has one) is giving her feedback on what to expect, demand, and offer in the relationship. You might not be fully aware of the influence of that, but it could be very helpful to remember that the influence of a woman's female friends and relatives can be very strong.

Lots of truth in this!
Yes these ties or influences are supremely strong, if she doesn't placate them then she risks social ostracizing because (just like meerkats apparently) social ostrization is nigh deadly for most humans... Or maybe not anymore buut basically it is. And females are much more social.



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19 Nov 2015, 2:25 pm

If your girlfriend tells you her car broke down, that is TWO problems. One, her car needs repairs. Two, she's unhappy. The desired outcome is that you fix both of these problems.



kraftiekortie
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19 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

I would want to solve both those problems---but I wouldn't want to be taken for granted in the process.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Nov 2015, 3:09 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
If your girlfriend tells you her car broke down, that is TWO problems. One, her car needs repairs. Two, she's unhappy. The desired outcome is that you fix both of these problems.


And if your boyfriend tells you his PS4 is broke down?



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19 Nov 2015, 3:28 pm

Or she could take the car to a professional, like everybody does. I am not a mechanic.



looniverse
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19 Nov 2015, 3:29 pm

LeelaLeela wrote:
It varies from man to man and woman to woman. I don't think you can generalize genders.




I don't think you understand what the word "generalize" means.

Human beings are hard wired to generalize.



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19 Nov 2015, 3:34 pm

looniverse wrote:

Human beings are hard wired to generalize.


Human beings are conditioned to generalise.


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19 Nov 2015, 4:09 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
looniverse wrote:

Human beings are hard wired to generalize.


Human beings are conditioned to generalise.

Not to veer too far OT (or is it too late already???) but...
As a species we tend to generalize in order to predict. However, we also continuously learn specific overrides to those generalizations too, in order to be more accurate. Our nervous systems tend to average incoming physical stimulus, especially across bilateral symmetry. And neural networks like our brains *tend* to do the same unless something learned is heavily weighted to stand on its own. Nature and nurture. In the last two decades neurologists have determined we are a mix of the two; the fun they are having now is determining which neural attributes & sites are hard wired, which are plastic and then hand it over to the behaviorists. They in turn get to try to figure out how much influence each has in influencing our external behaviors.


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19 Nov 2015, 4:35 pm

in my own experience with men as a woman, they have most often been eager to come to a resting conclusion to the issue even if doing so allows the reasons why the issue became an argument to be left undiscussed. I think that it fixes the issue in the short term but doesn't provide a long term solution. I can only speak for my own experience regarding men and women, but in regards to what it means to fix something, I think that short term results inevitably lead to a future failure of the same system.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Nov 2015, 4:37 pm

If aliens of an asexual species who have no understanding of gender/sex/family in their world invade us, capture us, observe our daily behaviors in captivity housing, scan our brains for wiring analysis and then autopsy them (the brains) for organic analysis, then they might end up thinking that men and women are two very closely related species but not entirely the same one.



superpentil
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19 Nov 2015, 6:55 pm

I don't think humans are conditioned to generalize. I've seen people recognize patterns at incredibly young ages without intervention by parents or others. Yes though, you cannot ever possibly say something is 100% something all the time, but for the sake of simplicity and getting things done, that's usually what people are most interested in. Socially I think it depends on context but I've seen generalization be used with outliers, usually as warnings. For instance:

If you're driving and hear sirens, pull over immediately. Though sometimes you'll only want to when you're in a safe spot to do so.

Terrible analogy, I know, but I think it works. If you overwhelm people with a "remember all these locations in the world where you'll have to delay pulling over" in a stressful situation like driving I think less people would drive.

I can only account for women I've dated and they're usually fiercely independent, though I do hang out with women that could be considered 'not independent', and those types of women can be quite different. The women I date are weird with physical intimacy, sometimes they're in the mood for a hug but usually physical contact is kept to a minimum. ie, we don't hold hands, we only hug when saying goodbye etc. and they never ever want to talk about problems (either just to talk or what I want to do which is fix) but it obviously affects them. I was pretty much raised by just my mom for a long time and she has a hard time with logical steps (she absolutely hates math) but somehow I bring out solutions based on logic. In terms of other vectors I was usually a loner, and didn't pay much attention in class (looking back I was surrounded by women growing up; interesting). Outside during recess though I'd always see the kids just form into their groups intuitively, it was weird. Long story short, in my observations I've seen more intuition and presumption based on generations of advice (like buying a girl a doll even though she could grow up to hate them) than hard wire social brainwashing. Like if you ask kids "raise your hands if you want to be a nurse" the boys usually won't and some girls will; If you ask their parents they respond with either an "I don't know" or something entirely different.

Maybe I'm consistently dating weird women, I'm not sure. That sample size is too small to say, and it is just my observations so I don't know.



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19 Nov 2015, 7:45 pm

Quote:
And if your boyfriend tells you his PS4 is broke down?


I play the PS4 the most in my family, so I would gasp in horror and go buy a new one.



marshall
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19 Nov 2015, 10:26 pm

Whatever. I'm not the stereotypical male. I don't just try to "fix" things. I value empathy. At least towards people who are decent human beings.

Also, it's possible to validate a person and look for practical solutions at the same time in most cases. It isn't one or the other.



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20 Nov 2015, 2:23 am

Humans are hardwired and conditioned to generalize.



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20 Nov 2015, 5:20 am

^
That's actually correct. It was a bit of a knee jerk reaction on my part earlier, as it seemed to imply "hey, I'm conditioned to generalise, so you can't blame me for thinking all women are b*****s and all men are pigs, because I've met a few who are". Probably read to much into it, although plenty of people follow such train of thinking without even realising it.

What I actually meant was that people who rely solely on generalisations and the simplistic binary thinking they have been taught in school, are doing themselves a great disservice. Their understanding of the world and people will unavoidably be very fragmentary and superficial and their own preconceived ideas and expectations will work against them when trying to establish a connection with others.

A philosopher once said "the exception does not confirm the rule, but creates a new one". If you have an odd foot, you look for the odd shoe, the normal ones will hurt your feet and drive you crazy. This is what seems to happen to a lot of people here who try to date or befriend "normal" people.


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