maybe people shouldn't date...

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Yes! I know unconditional love: my daughter's love and not a single romantic relationship ever came close to it.
Ever.
In the initial phases of those relationships I have felt like "this may be IT" sometimes (probably blinded by chemistry, hormones, whatnot, a feeling of "we're soulmates!") just to be bitterly disappointed later (more or less, but always). People were pushing me to change many things about myself to better fulfil their expectations, to in a way become a better usable object, instead of just being honest about our differences and leave me (which I'd fully respect). So it was all conditional, even if it seemed unconditional at first.

I could never place myself in the gender dynamic as I've always felt kind of what you'd call now agender. Anything uber-masculine or uber-feminine and the whole game between the sexes has always confused me and to some point - repulsed me. As a teenager I wished the world would turn non-gender-polarized and finish with all that nonsense. I felt huge nostalgia about times when I was like 9 or 10 years old and everything was just kind of more genuine, a few friendships I had - no hidden agenda, no expectations, innocent world forever lost for me.
I guess I could recreate it all in a close friendship, but finding/maintaining one at the age of 35 is... really hard. Maybe it will happen when I'm old and when I have all the time in world to wander around knitting/ fishing/ astronomy/ crafting clubs for the oldies I could find myself a lovely Margaret or John to wander around botanical gardens with and have afternoon tea together and hug on the garden swing, under a fluffy blanket. I don't really need much more, it seems, and I don't think I'd miss the romance at all if I had companionship, understanding and total acceptance of another person.

I think that if you lost your freedom or self-expression in your past relationships, then they were not good matches after all. Maybe good matches based on interests, but not good matches in areas that count.



Now you are simply saying that you dislike NT mate selection, and then assume that's all there is to it. Faulty assumption. NT mate selection is not a human universal. There are people that don't work that way, and that will play without those.



Which is a faulty conclusion based on faulty assumptions.

It is based upon both my general experience in life and thorough observation of people, but also spending thousands of hours reading philosophy and psychology books and deep introspection.

I guess you're trying to make the point that my experience would be different dating an aspie. I have not dated a woman on the spectrum, but based on my observations of the women on this forum atleast, I'd say that most of the same mechanisms are at work when it comes to mate selection and gender dynamics. So in my estimation, the difference between NT women and aspies in this regard is small, at best.

I appreciate your response, but I cannot go back to being naive. I've already felt the sudden decrease in affection from a partner when I lost my job, and the sudden attention from women who used to reject me, when I started doing really well. Women's love and affection is always in relation to how well you are doing CURRENTLY, and thus love is not unconditional at all. I am not angry about it, I can't change it anyway. But I just find it exhausting, stressful and not worth it at all.

Well I don't know about always I don't love my boyfriend any less or have less affection for him when he isn't doing that well. We had a concerning period for a bit where he had quit his job and had to find something new but he didn't get less affection from me, at one point we even considered if he didn't find something in time we'd have to go stay with his parents till we could manage to do better financially. And when I first met him he was sleeping on the floor of an apartment living room...I slept there with him plenty of times before he ever was able to afford a bed.

I have always kind of wanted a relationship without having some of the issues I have observed among some couples such as the woman being too materialistic and the guy willing to do anything for her regardless of how crappy she treats him and things like that. Or being in a relationship with someone with a different lifestyle so it ends up one person wants to drink for instance and the other person constantly disapproves and hassles them about it. I didn't want to be like that, so I am not.

But to each their own if you're happier on your own, certainly does give you more freedom to just do what you want and not have to consider another person. Either way my affection for my boyfriend is not related to how well he's doing...and as rare as that may be I certainly cannot be the only female like that, who doesn't let lack of material things or financial struggles cause a rift in the relationship. The only reason finances matter to either of us at all is so we can live together with a roof over our head, well and we both have fantasized about winning the lottery but who hasn't.

All you can read in current psychology books is about how NTs operate. I don't think philosophy has the answer either. Experience through observation (or even better, participation) is the only way.



You shouldn't "date" aspies. That will setup things in the NT way. You need to do natural ND courtship if you want to experience unconditional love with NDs, otherwise, they will just play their cultural roles, all which were defined by NTs.



In my experience, it is HUGE.



Women that show different affection based on your job or success are not relationship material. They typically can be detected if you refuse to disclose any of that information, and they still show interest in you. Which you do by refusing to date them and converse about those topics with them until you already have a deep mutual connection.

No, you aren't. I know a few other like that.

rdos, sometimes you do sound very wise.

Your last paragraph is a wise advice.

Yes trying to discuss the generalizations, as for the manipulating I think historically women in a lot of cultures have had to rely more on brains than strength...thus have probably developed more manipulation skills than males who have historically relayed more on strength. Or watch/read some Game of Thrones, the female characters do more manipulating of situations than fighting, whearas the males tend to rely more on fighting and strength. Of course that doesn't describe every character but it is certainly a general rule. There are male characters that don't do much fighting and female characters that do. I know its not 'historical' more fantasy but the author who wrote the books has created very convincing characters that seem to reflect how people really are.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 14 Jun 2017, 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Game of Thrones is a fictional story; and its female characters are fictional.

And you're starting talking evo psychology jargon. In other term, you are theorizing that women have evolved to be better natural manipulators - yet there's no evidence on that.
The "manipulating nature of female character" is an old preconceived idea originated from Adam and Eve and other old biblical legends; and it exists in the 3 abrahamic relgions.

I mean many male historical figures were great manipulators; and of the masses too.
Hitler and Napoleaon were great crow manipulators for example and have no female parrallels in that.

Yes I pointed out it was fictional in my post, either way it certainly does reflect actual people in a sense, I am sure there are historical books/movies that would also show simular behaviors in people.

Also it has simply been my observation that at least in social situations women tend to be better at manipulating the situation, whether positively or negatively I am not very good at it being I suck at social interaction to begin with but yes it seems largely to be the case. I think the theory I've come up with makes more sense than the biblical/abrahamic version which goes further to imply women cannot be trusted in any way shape or form and then encourages some pretty ridiculous rules for them. For instance in the bible I believe there is something about women having to let their husband rule over them, gross.

And I'd think it would be fairly obvious I don't take typical traits to represent everyone, so it is not surprising there have been very good male manipulators as well. There are also women who are stronger than a lot of males and would probably beat them in a fight.

Oh - maybe it is the way women in your culture/ city / village are socially conditioned to be like that.

My current partner is not like; I never sensed any manipulative nature from her.

I think you are biased against women, Sweetleaf; due to your experiences with some women.

This is not the first time you show bitterness toward women; you talked generalization about manipulation in women in other threads before.

lol you have a partner?

I think it's very rare for a woman to think like you do Sweetleaf, and I mean that as a compliment.

I've had experiences with women though, where they pretended to have the values they knew I would be attracted to. And then suddenly the facade crackles, and it turns out they are as shallow as a puddle. I think some women treat dating like a game, where all they want to do is to "win", no matter how fake they need to be to get there.

The experiences I've had have made me extremely skeptical of women. Unfortunately, I think even if I met a woman who genuinely shared the same values as me, I would be to skeptical to even believe it.

Btw, the girl of the chat screenshot in the locked thread has just told me yesterday that she broke up with her date who was talking about in that same chat.

What was her reason? It wasn't because he makes less than she expects (less than $10K).

But because she "felt" that he may be treating her like a prostitute; she realized that the chalet where he was taking her is in a known red district area; and that made her to feel uncomfortable, according to what she told me.

I am not surprised though, no sane good guy would remain with a such greedy person unless he sees her as a purchasable sex object.

Gold diggers will always attract "sex buyers" type of guys.

well damn boo, damned if I do damned if I don't....you complain about me defending women too much if I challenge a generalization you make, then if I see some truth to a generalization I am generalizing too much in your eyes. Lol I don't think it is possible for me to make posts that don't bother you.

I am not bothered; but your posts made me concerned:

It has given me a strong impression that there’s potentially something being bred here--not deliberately--that could actually do men more harm than good if nothing else is said.

There is a difference between warning people of 'women like that' and generalizing that all women are like that, Sweetleaf.
You are saying women are more natural manipulators than men.
This is a very huge generalization and based on sexist old stereotypes.

Some women can be like this, but not all women are like this, Sweetleaf– so it isn't fair to extend your trust issue to all women. Even because there is some men who are very manipulators too – but at the end, all falls under denying people their individuality and confirming ourselves/others to gender stereotypes.

and oh BTW: if you want to carry suspicion and resentment towards people of your own sex as you work your way through human socializing, go right ahead, but know this: a smart person, like for example your boyfriend's mother or his female relatives, will pick up on that, sooner or later, and either reciprocate that ugliness or push your partner to dump you!


/Hmmm, so déjà vu