Women have to deal with "too nice" syndrom too

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No no, you're not ret*d - you misunderstood. The people who dump people because they're too nice are ret*d.

It's OK Yoshie, I can see how you though that comment was directed towards you - but it wasn't. No one thinks you're ret*d. "reassuring hug"

I'm sorry. You have a point. It isn't fair that men would dump women because they were too nice. Like I tried to say in my post, I would never do that to a girl. If a girl I was dating was too nice to me, then I would return the favor by doing something really nice for her. I would never date someone who wouldn't treat me the way that I wouldn't want to be treated. I mean, if I were to date you, I would never dump you or cheat on you. Instead, I would do what I could to do something nice for you.

Spot17, I totally agree with your post. I've seen this happen time and time again. I know this girl who treats her boyfriends like total crap, yet she has them fawning over her left and right. She doesn't look any better than a lot of other girls, so I could never figure out what her appeal was. I asked one of the guys once. He said that he didn't quite know, but that her confidence was attractive. She's been married a couple of times now, and has driven each of her husbands (and kids) to the brink of madness. The thing that attracted them to her so much, is the same thing that makes them so unhappy in their relationships with her. So, I guess, my point is that the really over-the-top mean women get guys, but they don't generally make them happy.

In my own experience, when I was a teenager in love, I was definitely *too nice.* My boyfriend knew he had me wrapped around his finger, and that I would have waited for him forever. I believed that since I was so completely in love, there was no need to hide it. I was happy just to be with him, so why fight? I was too naive to realize that relationships require a certain amount of game playing.

With my husband, I haven't been nearly as nice, yet we've been married for more than a decade. Our entire courtship was mostly a cat/mouse game, where he was chasing me. I didn't do this purposely. It was just that I wasn't over my previous boyfriend. I was only with my husband begrudgingly, and he kind of always knew it, yet I seemed to drive him wild. Again, I never purposely set out to play a game with him. It just sort of worked out that way. I was comfortable with my husband, so I felt free to say things to him that I wouldn't have said to any other man. Maybe I was even trying to test him, to see how far I could push him before he would leave me too. Still, I was only mean for *me,* which isn't nearly as mean as other women I've heard about. It always amazed me that my husband stayed. Now, I'm so settled with him that I'm nice, most of the time. The irony is that now I worry that he'll leave me.

You said it yourself, the guy was a loser. To hell with them, who needs 'em. It's not easy finding people out there. Even without having AS it is hard for people. Just keep floating on, someone who can appreciate you will come along eventually. Personally, I love low maintenance nice people.

And much much slower than sexual selection.
Still, all of our morals go through a slow selection
process of their own, and this is what I suspect the
book is describing.

I've never had this problem myself (not sure why... maybe I am meaner than I think? ), but this often happened to my best girl friends in high school. One friend especially was a very lovely girl, inside and out. But to my recollection only one guy ever asked her out on a date during all four years of school.

I'm certainly no expert, but I'm inclined to think part of the key as to why some guys lose interest in "nice girls" might lie in this observation you made: "if you're too nice and accommodating, they lose interest."

When I read that, I thought "accomodating... BINGO!! !" That word hadn't occurred to me before as a descriptor for the phenomenon, but I've been thinking a lot about this subject lately. This is a part of why I turned down some "nice guys" over the past few months. It wasn't because they were nice (I do want nice), but (among other red flags) they were trying so hard to be pleasing and accomodating, it was hard to tell at times what they actually thought, preferred or wanted.

I mean, when I say to a person, "I like blue," I don't want to hear, "Oh, yes, blue is definitely the best!" while the person's eyes are saying, "Hmm... I'm not totally convinced about blue but rather than telling you what I really think, I'm going to tell you what I think you might like to hear." Not only does that get super boring, it also makes me think that this person is attempting to manipulate me. It bums me out. Personally I'd rather he liked orange and said so. Sure, I might still leave if blue/orange issues are of utmost importance to me. But he'd have my respect and admiration.

Some people would misinterpret this and say, "Oh, so you're saying many people want conflict in a relationship to keep it interesting." I don't think this is the case at all. I think most people want mostly agreement with a significant other (or potential significant other). But they want that agreement to be authentic.

Anyhow, what I'm getting at is that I suspect that a lot of these guys who appear to like difficult women are actually attracted to the fact that such women are generally very passionate and strong about various things. The difficult temperament just might be an annoying but bearable comorbid condition . There are always dozens of other issues at play in each individual case, of course... but I am thinking this might be a common thread between many cases of nice people being passed over.

Or I'm just wrong.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.

I was reading this thread and the thought occured to me that maybe these men see those difficult women as a prize to be won or something. An ideal that only women who make it a struggle are worth struggling for? In otherwords, could it be a form of objectifying them, in that they view them as something to win over and have? Just a random thought.

I've definitely met men who think like this.
But, does this really mean that the women
are going to be complete jerks, once caught?

Wouldn't that just make being ret*d normal? Perhaps we are just more intelligent on average? I got lucky in that my hubby and I were each others' first boyfriend/girlfriend. He didn't get the chance to be corrupted by idiots

I'm sure you will find someone to love you, you seem like a really nice girl. If those guys are really dumb enough to chase that which hurts them over somebody who loves them, then they would be far too unintelligent in the long term to be decent partners anyway.

I am all of those things that you describe of yourself, however I can be quite needy if I go into meltdown or if he drags me out to a party. I tend not to let him out of my sight in public circumstances, mmostly to aviod being caught alone with everyone else.

I'm not dishonest with them. If I say I like something... I mean it. If I say I don't care... I mean it. Yet, people constantly doubt my opinion of what I like. It angers me to no end. Do I look dishonest? I wonder if I'm putting off the wrong nonverbal signals. Also, if I like the same things they do it's seen as being too accommodating or dishonest... but when I don't like them I'm seen as less compatible (judging by their reactions). So, how am I supposed to win that game?

Beats me. Is that a rhetorical question? I could make some conjectures, but since I don't know you in person, I'd likely be wrong.

I'm glad you're honest though.

It's the chase thing. You can throw this out for AS guys because I don't have experience with them, but for NT guys which I grew up around and later dated, even shyness and withdrawal is attractive to them because they feel they can't "get" you. Once they think they really "have" you, the chase appeal wears off and it becomes real life. If they aren't ready for real life yet, they move on. The women they go back to over and over or stay with because they don't "accomodate" them or "agree" with them remain a chase. They still haven't quite caught them (dominated them, won them), so they continue because it sets off the prey instinct in them. I see it all the time. The same is true of women regarding men. Subconciously they feel they must completely know the person before they decide to cast them off. Otherwise there could be something "hidden" that they want. So, they pursue it. Once everything is known, they make a decision.

I've had this trouble because I'm withdrawn and frankly can't stand to be touched (except by my husband). So, men will come up to me, try to talk to me and inevitably touch me to get my attention, but each attempt just makes me withdraw and become more non-verbal. They see it as aloofness and become more aggressive in their pursuit. I had to have it explained to me (although I still can't bring myself to talk to them to become the "known" quality). Before that, I had no idea what was going on or why they did that. It still freaks me out. On the another side, if dh sees it at all, he goes into Neandertal mode and becomes quite aggressive with them. He freaks out that I don't understand why it's escalating and I have no clue how to stop it.

I can't say my relationship with him is like that (even though he's always afraid I'll wander off looking at some spinner or some such), because I moved straight in with him. Then again, I am pretty mentally remote in that I live mostly in my head. Who knows. I think we're together because we're the only two who could actually stand to live with each other and we have great physical chemistry. We both also enjoy a very intellectual relationship. The most important thing is that our quirks fit together. We're functional in our dysfunction. He might be as NT as the day is long, but he's completely OCD and it doesn't bother me at all. In fact I like it. That's probably why we work.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 29 May 2007, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

if you dont like the rules, then you don't have to play.
pointless bitching about the scoring system, it's not going to change.

i dont know... i see the point in wanting to be with someone who constantly piques my interest - but that whole BS about consciously displaying un-nice behaviour isnt to the point of it. its a futile try to appear more challenging/interesting. the so-called confidence displayed by playing that part isnt even real confidence. a person with niveau should be beyond that.

i, for one (male, by the way), always have that too-nice-problem but wouldnt want a girl that isnt nice to me. nice doesnt mean to agree on all issues. actually, i think that someone confident in oneself doesnt need to be bitchy and artificially hard-to-get to be interesting.