Increased intellect making up for lack of experience?

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Indeed. I like the way you think!

I have a hard time speaking for women. But in my experience, I've found the best thing a guy can do is read cheap romance novels. The real world takes more time to get there, but novelists typically play to the fantasies of a large female audience. If you're a man, you don't know what women want, and women aren't talking to you, find a woman writer and READ.

LOL. So true, AngelRho. We can also read novels about controversial subjects to find people's greatest fears.

Now this concept I just reject completely, I think it's a pathetic way of doing things. Men should not sit around reading romance novels in order to live up to some idealistic fantasy, that some women may or may not have. Men would be much better off understanding women from a biological standpoint. No amount of flowers and poetry is going to make you a good/desirable partner for a woman.

But if you really want to do it this way, look at the best selling romance book of all time for women. Fifty shades of grey, it's a about a young woman having sex with a billionaire. That should tell you alot about what women really want.

Poor literature?

It has nothing to do with wether it is poor or not, I am not in the position to judge that anyway, since I haven't read it. Fact is, it is the best selling romance book of all time.

Ummmm....no. Who said anything about living up to any fantasy? I'm just suggesting one way to understand women: through their literature. Why do women's romances sell so well? Nora Roberts is by FAR not a highly credentialed writer, nor is she particularly skilled. But she IS a prolific formula fic writer who understands her audience and has built a loyal base. And, get this, she writes mainly for herself, and yet her stories resonate with women. Obviously she knows what women want. If you as a man want to understand women and nobody will help you, get to reading.

Women's magazines are good, too. Back in the 90's I was reading my mom's Redbook. Gooooood stuff. I don't personally read Cosmo, but I suspect it's as effective.

Yeah, I can't understand the 50 Shades thing, either. Not without an actual woman who relates to it. My poor man-brain can only come up with one piece of speculation on that one-- and that is the tendency of certain women to want to "fix" men. Read that any way you like, but I mean take someone who is broken and remake him into the ideal. The other way is to effectively neuter a man. Any man can play into that fantasy. Pretend to be goofier and more vulnerable than you really are, allow your woman to "change" you, then drop the act and just be yourself. She'll get a big ego boost from being the "strong" one who "trained" you while you'd have treated her the same anyway. *Women are often hungry and thirsty for that sense of power and accomplishment. Why deny them that?

*This is NOT a sexist generalization, so don't start. Not ALL women are like that any more than all women are into 50 Shades. I'm referring ONLY to that segment who ARE into Shades and attempting to reason why and how that affects or reflects attitudes towards men, and from there suggesting ONE possible response from men. I don't make any claims to having a correct answer, nor do I believe there is only one possibility. This is a discussion forum...so please discuss if you like.

Yeah what women like about this sort of "literature" is the personal attention the lover gives her. He's consumed by her and does things like opens the car door for her, surprises her by turning up just to see her somewhere she doesn't expect.

In real life that's kinda creepy if someone you don't know so well does that, but if someone you're attracted to wants to be with you, that's awesome.

I really just want the guys I like to want to spend time with me and out their arm around me and listen to me. That's an integral thing in these films and novels. Even the badly written 50 shades. He just can't stand to be without her.

It probably helps too that he is a billionaire. Be free to disagree with me here, but I doubt the book would get even 10% of the sales it did, if mr.grey was a janitor. In the same way that men tend to not watch porn with old and fat women.

I don't think we should be so afraid to generalize, people need to understand that humans are animals, and there alot of general tendencies we can observe. Examples on a micro scale does not invalidate observations on a macro scale. I find it quite hypocritical that people tend to say you can't generalize, only when they percieve the generalizations as negative. If I said that black people generally are better at basketball than white people, no one would object and say "not all black people are like that". The reason 50 shades did so well, is because it plays on women's biological desires.

A rich, handsome and dominant man, that a weak and young woman controls through her sexuality. Resources for sex, it's the biological transaction.

Increased intelligence will only help you so much in social relationships. Quite a lot of it has to be learned, and for us that usually requires painful repetition.

Intelligence might let you cut down on the repetition somewhat. It did for me I guess... sometimes. Some kinds of pathologically messed-up behaviors I have only had to deal with once or twice to learn from. Others, I keep falling for over and over and over again.

But-- merry hell. Being behind the curve is no reason not to jump in, even enthusiastically, and try to learn. Have fun!!