Friends first or relationship first?

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Wife and I were only children. Part of our closeness is how much like ersatz brother/sister we are.

It’s kinda icky when you think about it...

If there really is such a thing as the friendzone, its horror is only rivaled and exceeded by the “bro-zone.” I never wanted to slap a girl so much as when she said “I love you like a...”

(No, I’d never seriously suggest hitting a girl. Point is if anything could infuriate me so much, that would ALMOST do it)

You'd be surprised how many of my relationships with women get stuck in the platonic territory. (Hint: Every single one.)

And surprisingly enough, none of them have suffered of the problem you mention. But to be fair, most of my female friends either already had boyfriends by the time I met them or were single but got boyfriends later on before I had the chance.

I think I get what you mean. I also felt like a parent with her & I've been called brother & dad by her on multiple occasions at different times. Maybe the term protective older brother would of worked slightly better.

I don’t find you being an “older brother” a problem, as long as you’re both content with the “role.”

Many relationships are like that. The ideal one is equal over all, though certain facets are not equal.

I help out with the more cerebral aspects in mine; she helps out in the practical aspects. Both are not “equal,” but the overall effect seems “equal” at times.

To seek equality in all facets is, to me, seeking a pipe dream.

When making your intentions known, you don't have to be blunt about it, but you do need to give the other person a good idea what you are looking for out of the relationship. Flirting with someone that you aren't interested in, or pretending to only want to be friends with someone you have a crush on, is a bad way of doing things, and leads to a lot of problems down the road (jealousy, frustration, heartbreak, etc.).

Also, people pretty much know if they might be romantically interested or not, the first time they meet you. If they put you in the "friends only" category (for whatever reason), in most cases, there is little you can do to change their minds about you. Hanging out with someone that only wants to be friends, and hoping they one day change their mind about you, and become romantically interested, very rarely ever happens. This is why it is best to make your intentions known, so you don't waste your time.

So, you wanted something else out of the friendship, and got put into the friend zone, or was it platonic by choice? Were any of those women interested in you?

This mostly makes sense.

I’m partly a product of my culture. That whole “Bible Belt” thing certain WP people make reference to.

It is generally assumed that a man wants and expects one thing from women. I work in two professions that are largely populated by women: music/arts, and education. On one hand I stay around women because they’re my coworkers and I have to. On the other hand, women are naturally drawn to me because I do cool stuff with musical instruments.

There are two problems with this. Lingering around women makes husbands and bf’s anxious. Second, I’m IAR myself. You would think that makes me “safe,” but around here people never make that assumption. Plus it makes me look bad. So I avoid unnecessarily long convos with women and keep things strictly professional and at least make the effort to focus my attention on their SO’s. Anything else that’s unavoidable is merely an occupational hazzard.

Because we assume the “worst” of men, I never worry about making intentions clear. It’s obvious. So if I were looking for a date, it would be with the understanding that I expected something. The elephant in the room. Once we acknowledge the elephant, it kinda kills the magic.

I might be taking my friend out to dinner, pretending internally that it’s a date-date, both of us having a great time. Once I start that conversation about if she sees me as just a friend, it’s entirely possible she’ll never go out with me again. Better to just get a date and enjoy it without the stated expectations than risk being alone an entire weekend.

Finally, I’m not a fan of exclusive dates early on in any relationship. I believe in taking friends out on casual dates. If you have someone flake on you, call up the girl you saw last weekend. Rotate them. You’ll always fall back the most on the girls who happen to like you. From there, you’ll likely find someone you like just as much as they like you. You’re three dates from a serious relationship once you reach that point. Doesn’t matter even if she’d previously fz’d you. That’s where real change happens.

I think the biggest issue with male/female relationships is expectations. If you both go out and have fun with each other with no expectations of anything more, then great, but if one person expects something else out of the relationship, and it's not reciprocated, then this is where you start to have problems.

Platonic by choice in all cases. And no, none of them showed any interest in me.

I think the "expect" part is key. If you're spending time together as friends and would like more, but are okay with things developing as a friendship, too, then you're not being dishonest by taking time to get to know each other properly. You can be attracted to someone and also enjoy a friendship level relationship.

If you're spending time together as friends and have stated that you want friendship, but are only okay with a relationship and expect this to happen, then it's not honest. This is leading someone to believe they have something with you that they don't actually have, and that you have feelings you don't actually have.

(all while asking that, despite you supposedly feeling this way, they decide to pursue more themselves!)

I think it creates distrust and frustration between genders to have what is essentially a bait-and-switch when it comes to feelings and desires.

I like this post.

I do still think that it’s human nature to expect a relationship to form. I just don’t think most people are comfortable putting all that on the table, which is why a guy can go zero to creep in seconds after a girl says “let’s just be friends.” He doesn’t magically transform into a creep...but it’s interesting how after the reveal the girl will put some distance between them.

There’s magic in leaving some things to mystery and chance. It’s easy. If friends are close and have fewer boundaries and a guy is attracted to her, he should lean in for a kiss. Give her time to get away or show him the cheek if she’s not feeling it. And all he has to say is, “oh, I’m sorry! I thought you... heehee, okay...yeeeeah... Anyway, we were talking about...?” It’s an awkward moment. You play it off. It never happened. Life goes on.

Trust me, guy or girl, if you just go for it like that, you’re making your intentions PLENTY clear. And you also give the two of you plenty of room to save face. MOST reasonable adults are mature enough to laugh it off and continue as just friends.

I’m also a huge fan of the girl taking the initiative. Guys I think are less resistant to the first kiss. If a girl does that, it leaves NO guesswork at all, very low emotional risk. Downside? Finding a girl who will.

All IMO, of course.

Friends or relationship? The lack of either can make a good excuse to put off any pursuit of the other forever (or till you’re too old for it to make sense anymore). This is a corollary of the general principle:

I am friends with a few girls, where there is mutual attraction between us, but none of us plans to take it any further, because they are already in a relationship. I wouldn't consider these true platonic friendships, but more like friendships that may, or may not turn into a romantic relationship, somewhere down the line.




I have seen this happen a lot. Many times, the person that is romantically interested, won't actually come right out and say they are interested, but instead let it be implied that they only want a friendship, in order to avoid compromising themselves. This to me is withholding information, and isn't completely honest, either.

Interesting. I have boldly gone in for the kiss on the rare occasion, but I'd have to feel pretty confident about it (if I'm sober, hah). Typically I find there are other things one can do that are less awkward if it goes wrong. Like, a touch on the hand, or shoulder nudges, usually followed by meaningful eye contact if the first action gets a positive reaction. Then lean in for the kiss. By this point it tends to be a mutual leaning.

I dunno, a rejected kiss would be harder to bounce back from than those more innocent "pre" moves, IMO.

It happened to me more than once that I was hanging out with a guy and at some point I realised I actually fancy him. Sometimes months after we first met. Because I had time to get to know him.
Don't give up just because a girl doesn't seem to like like you after a date.
It can happen later if you don't put pressure on her, you just go with the flow and enjoy spending some time together.
Although I think for that you need to be quite secure and not desperate.

I’m more of the mindset that the more open you are to something happening, the more likely it WILL happen. I said OPEN to it, not expecting it or anticipating it. You’re in a better position if you set up a situation where that “just happens.” Truth is it never “just happens.” But if you are open to it every time you go out with a girl, any girl, regardless of platonic level, friendzone, etc., sooner or later, yeah, things can get real.

It’s never truly spontaneous, it just “feels” that way. That’s how you set up a moment. It’s something you should always be in the habit of doing. If you get reciprocation, excellent. If not, no harm, no foul.

Example: I dropped my class ring in the library once while I was in grad school. I’d gotten friendly with one of the girls who worked the desk, same as with everyone, and she called to say she’d found my ring. I told her, meh, just keep it on the front desk and I’ll pick it up in the morning. Next thing I know she walks to my room, like, THAT NIGHT to return it.

So there we were, hanging out in the commons area just chatting. Gorgeous redhead. I moved closer to her and she didn’t run away. I leaned in to kiss her. She didn’t give me the cheek, didn’t duck her head, didn’t pull away. But in the tiniest, sweetest voice she begged me not to kiss her. I asked why. She gave his half-hearted excuse that was essentially meaningless. So I kissed her anyway and we were sleeping together within a week.

Our little fling didn’t last long. Bad situation and I wasn’t in the position to rescue little lost puppies. I’m certainly not suggesting anyone ignore a woman who says no. If you can’t recognize when a woman is playing games and it’s not obvious, don’t take unnecessary chances. When in doubt, don’t.

The takeaway is, to use little words, luck favors the prepared. It’s not a magic formula for getting a gf or getting a ONS or anything else. It’s never a guarantee that anything will happen, even if you do everything right. What IS a guarantee is that if you don’t take some steps in setting it up and always being open to it, it NEVER WILL happen, whatever “it” is.

This is also why I’m strongly in favor of keeping emotions under tight guard. If you crush, obsess, or fall in love with a girl, you place demands and expectations on her. It’s only natural and not a bad thing. It’s just that at the early stages that might frighten someone away. Liking someone is good. Creeping them out is NOT. Best not to tip your hand too much.

I prefer just letting the girl call it. I’d rather be with a number of girls I enjoy being around who are “just friends” (because that can always change) than to recklessly pursue one single girl who I feel I can’t live without. I’ll be devastated if, no, WHEN she rejects me. So I prefer to show interest in everyone. If some chemistry seems to be working out between me and one particular girl, I’ll pursue that. If she rejects me, no big deal. Move on. And eventually things will work out with someone. Emotions will run high, but it’s ok because you know you’ll win.