You think it's hard to be a man TODAY?

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RetroGamer87
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13 Jun 2018, 8:07 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
I gather - and somebody correct me if I'm wrong - that the shift from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarian societies involved people largely staying in one place. The linked article states that women typically became members of whatever clan they married into, while men remained members of their originating clan. So nubile women were portable whereas men were not.

We have now reached the outer limits of my ability to talk about this stuff. Genetic anthropology and archaeology are way beyond my ken. I tried to read one of the articles linked to the history.com article, and found too many concepts and words that were new to me.


It's the poorest understood aspect of human history to be honest. No other species has moved from nomadic to stationary, so there's not fossil evidence of other species that could help either. You are correct on the leading theory though. It goes like this: nomadic humans are just like nomadic animals, they followed game trails as the seasons change. The men would hunt for animals and the women would collect fruits and vegetables as the group progressed through it's game trail. Eventually someone noticed that the seeds they spit out from the plants grew the exact same plant in that location a year later on their next migration. A light bulb turns on, and the tribe realizes they no longer have to make the arduous journey year in and year out, they can plant the seeds and live in a single location all year round. If this theory is indeed correct, it means several things: the person that figured it out was an Einstein level intellect for that developmental phase of human (highly probable it was a female too since they were in charge of plant gathering), second that would be the point humans started looking in 3 + 1 dimensions (the standard three x,y,z dimensions we're all familiar with, the + 1 represents time, the unique attribute said discoverer noticed).

After agriculture comes civilization, now that humans are stationary they need to protect the agriculture from other animals as well as other nomadic humans, so they erect structures such as huts, walls, and develop weapons. The article you linked doesn't mention it, but 7,000 years ago coincides with the earliest archeological evidence we have of civilization. Due to that I propose this theory: when human tribes that were still nomadic ran across a civilized group of humans, the civilized group stole the women (not necessarily killing the men, or enslaving them, just stealing) and hid behind their walls and weapons, forcing the nomadic group on their path without the females. I propose this because integration into a community is hard work: the new members need to learn the customs of the tribe, a new language, and at that point they needed to be taught about agriculture and tool making since they were the key to early civilization. Warring with the remaining nomadic males would decline the population of the civilized ones and there wasn't much room for margin of error as far as human labor was concerned (early agriculture was harder work than it was even during Egyptian times some 1000-2000 years later, and the yield on crops was extremely low compared to today's standards). Likewise, gaining slaves means you need to feed slaves on top of overseeing them, and the efficiency just wasn't there at that point to have a group of non-producers (overseerers).

One interesting tidbit that's closely related to the advent of transitioning from hunter-gatherer to civilization: hunter-gatherers are commonly thought to have spent 2-4 hours a day hunting/gathering on average, whereas early civilized humans were thought to have worked 7-10 hour days farming, building, etc. That's a tough sell, and no doubt there was violence over division of labor since people were working 3x as much as they were used to.


Is any of this transition reflected in ancient mythology?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Jun 2018, 10:05 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe, for a second, that "95% of the men willingly didn't breed."



So explain how their lineage disappared? What means these 5% exerced to stop them to breed?

Or maybe it was the majority of women who willingly selected 5% of men? I wouldn’t be suprised because this what I see in my local gym today :lol: They flirt only with barely 5% of men (the hot buff ones).

Whatever means these ancient humans did to stop the rest of men to breed, they were really really effective.... 95% filtering of male genes, wow.



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13 Jun 2018, 10:14 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
I gather - and somebody correct me if I'm wrong - that the shift from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarian societies involved people largely staying in one place. The linked article states that women typically became members of whatever clan they married into, while men remained members of their originating clan. So nubile women were portable whereas men were not.

We have now reached the outer limits of my ability to talk about this stuff. Genetic anthropology and archaeology are way beyond my ken. I tried to read one of the articles linked to the history.com article, and found too many concepts and words that were new to me.


It's the poorest understood aspect of human history to be honest. No other species has moved from nomadic to stationary, so there's not fossil evidence of other species that could help either. You are correct on the leading theory though. It goes like this: nomadic humans are just like nomadic animals, they followed game trails as the seasons change. The men would hunt for animals and the women would collect fruits and vegetables as the group progressed through it's game trail. Eventually someone noticed that the seeds they spit out from the plants grew the exact same plant in that location a year later on their next migration. A light bulb turns on, and the tribe realizes they no longer have to make the arduous journey year in and year out, they can plant the seeds and live in a single location all year round. If this theory is indeed correct, it means several things: the person that figured it out was an Einstein level intellect for that developmental phase of human (highly probable it was a female too since they were in charge of plant gathering), second that would be the point humans started looking in 3 + 1 dimensions (the standard three x,y,z dimensions we're all familiar with, the + 1 represents time, the unique attribute said discoverer noticed).

After agriculture comes civilization, now that humans are stationary they need to protect the agriculture from other animals as well as other nomadic humans, so they erect structures such as huts, walls, and develop weapons. The article you linked doesn't mention it, but 7,000 years ago coincides with the earliest archeological evidence we have of civilization. Due to that I propose this theory: when human tribes that were still nomadic ran across a civilized group of humans, the civilized group stole the women (not necessarily killing the men, or enslaving them, just stealing) and hid behind their walls and weapons, forcing the nomadic group on their path without the females. I propose this because integration into a community is hard work: the new members need to learn the customs of the tribe, a new language, and at that point they needed to be taught about agriculture and tool making since they were the key to early civilization. Warring with the remaining nomadic males would decline the population of the civilized ones and there wasn't much room for margin of error as far as human labor was concerned (early agriculture was harder work than it was even during Egyptian times some 1000-2000 years later, and the yield on crops was extremely low compared to today's standards). Likewise, gaining slaves means you need to feed slaves on top of overseeing them, and the efficiency just wasn't there at that point to have a group of non-producers (overseerers).

One interesting tidbit that's closely related to the advent of transitioning from hunter-gatherer to civilization: hunter-gatherers are commonly thought to have spent 2-4 hours a day hunting/gathering on average, whereas early civilized humans were thought to have worked 7-10 hour days farming, building, etc. That's a tough sell, and no doubt there was violence over division of labor since people were working 3x as much as they were used to.


Is any of this transition reflecoted in ancient mythology?



Yes, Gilgamesh.... in the poem ALL the women of his kingdom were having sex with him, even a goddess tried to have sex with him, doesn’t this ring a bell?

Hint: ALPHA male, the myth reflects the ALPHA male - yes these two words that so many of you WPers denied its existence in humans yet all historical and GENETIC even present life evidence show so much the case.

These two words are so heavy and un-PC on the ears of many feminists and deniers; but come on... stop denying the scientific facts.

Yes, these 5% were Alpha males who then got portrayed as heores and even semi gods in ancient mythologies.



RetroGamer87
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13 Jun 2018, 10:28 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
I gather - and somebody correct me if I'm wrong - that the shift from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarian societies involved people largely staying in one place. The linked article states that women typically became members of whatever clan they married into, while men remained members of their originating clan. So nubile women were portable whereas men were not.

We have now reached the outer limits of my ability to talk about this stuff. Genetic anthropology and archaeology are way beyond my ken. I tried to read one of the articles linked to the history.com article, and found too many concepts and words that were new to me.


It's the poorest understood aspect of human history to be honest. No other species has moved from nomadic to stationary, so there's not fossil evidence of other species that could help either. You are correct on the leading theory though. It goes like this: nomadic humans are just like nomadic animals, they followed game trails as the seasons change. The men would hunt for animals and the women would collect fruits and vegetables as the group progressed through it's game trail. Eventually someone noticed that the seeds they spit out from the plants grew the exact same plant in that location a year later on their next migration. A light bulb turns on, and the tribe realizes they no longer have to make the arduous journey year in and year out, they can plant the seeds and live in a single location all year round. If this theory is indeed correct, it means several things: the person that figured it out was an Einstein level intellect for that developmental phase of human (highly probable it was a female too since they were in charge of plant gathering), second that would be the point humans started looking in 3 + 1 dimensions (the standard three x,y,z dimensions we're all familiar with, the + 1 represents time, the unique attribute said discoverer noticed).

After agriculture comes civilization, now that humans are stationary they need to protect the agriculture from other animals as well as other nomadic humans, so they erect structures such as huts, walls, and develop weapons. The article you linked doesn't mention it, but 7,000 years ago coincides with the earliest archeological evidence we have of civilization. Due to that I propose this theory: when human tribes that were still nomadic ran across a civilized group of humans, the civilized group stole the women (not necessarily killing the men, or enslaving them, just stealing) and hid behind their walls and weapons, forcing the nomadic group on their path without the females. I propose this because integration into a community is hard work: the new members need to learn the customs of the tribe, a new language, and at that point they needed to be taught about agriculture and tool making since they were the key to early civilization. Warring with the remaining nomadic males would decline the population of the civilized ones and there wasn't much room for margin of error as far as human labor was concerned (early agriculture was harder work than it was even during Egyptian times some 1000-2000 years later, and the yield on crops was extremely low compared to today's standards). Likewise, gaining slaves means you need to feed slaves on top of overseeing them, and the efficiency just wasn't there at that point to have a group of non-producers (overseerers).

One interesting tidbit that's closely related to the advent of transitioning from hunter-gatherer to civilization: hunter-gatherers are commonly thought to have spent 2-4 hours a day hunting/gathering on average, whereas early civilized humans were thought to have worked 7-10 hour days farming, building, etc. That's a tough sell, and no doubt there was violence over division of labor since people were working 3x as much as they were used to.


Is any of this transition reflecoted in ancient mythology?



Yes, Gilgamesh.... in the poem ALL the women of his kingdom were having sex with him, even a goddess tried to have sex with him, doesn’t this ring a bell?

Hint: ALPHA male, the myth reflects the ALPHA male - yes these two words that so many of you WPers denied its existence in humans yet all historical and GENETIC even present life evidence show so much the case.

These two words are so heavy and un-PC on the ears of many feminists and deniers; but come on... stop denying the scientific facts.

Yes, these 5% were Alpha males who then got portrayed as heores and even semi gods in ancient mythologies.

Well he was a king after all. That alone would make him popular with the ladies.


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kraftiekortie
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13 Jun 2018, 10:34 pm

People coupled then the way they couple now.

Outside the gym, I don’t see many so-called “alpha” males with many women stuck to them.

The gym is an artificial environment. It does not represent the real world.

On the train, I see many non-alpha males kissing pretty women. This is real life.

When I went to the gym, I met a few women. I’m short and stocky, not tall and buffed. Can never be buffed, no matter how hard I try.



kraftiekortie
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13 Jun 2018, 10:38 pm

Read up on “primitive” societies today.

Do 95% of these men willingly forego mating?

On the contrary, most men get married. The ones that don’t are seen as being of an alien persuasion.



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13 Jun 2018, 10:44 pm

Greetings from an alien dimension.... :lol:


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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jun 2018, 12:12 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
People coupled then the way they couple now.

Outside the gym, I don’t see many so-called “alpha” males with many women stuck to them.

The gym is an artificial environment. It does not represent the real world.

On the train, I see many non-alpha males kissing pretty women. This is real life.

When I went to the gym, I met a few women. I’m short and stocky, not tall and buffed. Can never be buffed, no matter how hard I try.



kraftiekortie wrote:
People coupled then the way they couple now.

Outside the gym, I don’t see many so-called “alpha” males with many women stuck to them.

The gym is an artificial environment. It does not represent the real world.

On the train, I see many non-alpha males kissing pretty women. This is real life.

When I went to the gym, I met a few women. I’m short and stocky, not tall and buffed. Can never be buffed, no matter how hard I try.



On the contrary, the monogamous “marriage” and “pairing up” is the artificial one, one was created to somehow control female sexuality - as for the gym example, they unconsciously get back to their basic instincts. Working out boosts hormones.

Yes, you see a lot of women with non-alphas because the marriage enforces them so, there’s not enough supply of alphas.
But look which fantasy stories sell most, they are always about a ONE Strong, fit, dominant, and wealthy central male character; rare the fantasy stories that talk about more than one male character.

It seems the biggest fantasy theme that sells most is winning a man’s heart who is desired by a lot of women, aka a true alpha.

There was an Okcupid chart showing that only 20% of men were rated above average by women.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 14 Jun 2018, 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jun 2018, 12:25 am

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... scientists

“Our data couldn’t find even a single woman that preferred weaker or feminine male bodies.”


:lol:



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14 Jun 2018, 12:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Read up on “primitive” societies today.

Do 95% of these men willingly forego mating?

On the contrary, most men get married. The ones that don’t are seen as being of an alien persuasion.


1-There was a huge study done on many primitive societies; I recall 90% of these tribes showed a mild polygyny bias (one man many wives) ; I ll post the link later.

2- The primitive societies of today are likely more socially evolved than the clans 12000 years ago.



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14 Jun 2018, 12:34 am

Yes, that could be. As you know, Muslims are allowed to marry four wives.

A “mild polygyny.” Definitely, in some societies.



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14 Jun 2018, 12:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, that could be. As you know, Muslims are allowed to marry four wives.

A “mild polygyny.” Definitely, in some societies.



It’s not common today tho nor socially accepted, recent studies show that only 1% of muslim marriages are polygamous - especially in countries that were originally Christian in the far past like Syria and Egypt. personally I only knew one Muslim with two wives in my entire life; and the brothers of the first wife forced him to divorce her. And i live in a Muslim area.
It is mostly common in Saudi Arabia.

Polygyny is allowed in Judaism too. And Islam is nothing but an offshoot of a Messianic Judaism.

I don’t understand why Muslims are always the first example every time polygyny is brought up.... guys: Polygyny IS allowed in the Old testatement.



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14 Jun 2018, 12:45 am

It might have been allowed in the Old Testament....but even Hasidic Jews do not practice polygyny....and they are not exactly progressive people.

Very few Mormons are polygamous.

I don’t know any Muslims who have more than one wife.



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14 Jun 2018, 12:58 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, that could be. As you know, Muslims are allowed to marry four wives.

A “mild polygyny.” Definitely, in some societies.



It’s not common today tho nor socially accepted, recent studies show that only 1% of muslim marriages are polygamous - especially in countries that were originally Christian in the far past like Syria and Egypt. personally I only knew one Muslim with two wives in my entire life; and the brothers of the first wife forced him to divorce her. And i live in a Muslim area.
It is mostly common in Saudi Arabia.

Polygyny is allowed in Judaism too. And Islam is nothing but an offshoot of a Messianic Judaism.

I don’t understand why Muslims are always the first example every time polygyny is brought up.... guys: Polygyny IS allowed in the Old testatement.

Because the old testament is about the past but Muslims exist in the present day.

According to my girlfriend, it also happens in China. From Wikipedia

Quote:


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14 Jun 2018, 1:39 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I don’t understand why Muslims are always the first example every time polygyny is brought up.... guys: Polygyny IS allowed in the Old testatement.

I think you don't understand it on purpose. By the way it wasn't forbidden in the Old Testament but basically every instance of polygamy in it ends up badly. I think polygamy will be restored in the West soon, give it 50 years and you'll see.



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14 Jun 2018, 2:23 am

Peacesells wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I don’t understand why Muslims are always the first example every time polygyny is brought up.... guys: Polygyny IS allowed in the Old testatement.

I think you don't understand it on purpose. By the way it wasn't forbidden in the Old Testament but basically every instance of polygamy in it ends up badly. I think polygamy will be restored in the West soon, give it 50 years and you'll see.



Check on 0:43, this guy is a Rabbi: