Who can afford to be angry

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I think its great that you can be so open about things that you've said during rows, well done. I just want to ask, were these women well balanced emotionally? It would be easy to lay all the blame on you but are they likely to have harmonious relationships after dumping you, or do you think that they will be having similar rows with the next person. l'm not going to judge you, I've always got involved with strong, firey people and I know for a fact that their exes all had a bumpy ride.
I'm not blame shifting, I'm not victim blaming, I'm enquiring into the matter.

^
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but if the girls would be that kind of "thrill seekers" or thrive on conflict (some people do), would they dump him after the first fight?

I would say that -- in general -- the girls that are willing to date me have something wrong with them on the first place, whether I threw a tantrum on them or not. I guess the normal, average, girls are just turned off by my Asperger -- independently of any tantrums -- so that tantrums aren't even part of the picture since we never say much more than hi to each other.

Now, if you ask me "in which ways" are the girls that dated me different from all other girls, I would say in different cases it is different. Like the girl to whom I threw that tantrum at the conference -- she was raised by southern baptist family and was so sheltered that she was still living with their family past the time when she was 30. She didn't break up with me after I threw that tantrum (we dated for a year and a half, thats probably why) but she broke up with me half a year later. During that subsequent half a year, she would nit-picking on me in the southern-baptist-y ways: like it was a big deal when I was invited to a party just once and tried to skype with her from that party. If you keep in mind that it was the ONLY time I was invited to a party within two years, I am a lot LESS outgoing than most guys. Yet to her even that was too much since she lives really sheltered lifestyle. The way that tantrum was relevant is that, when we had those fights about those other things, at some point she would say "well, its really hard to trust someone who told me he will dump me after he becomes a professor" -- and it was like a couple of months AFTER I told her that. So why would she bring it up a couple of months later in the context of fights over all those other things? That, plus also when she finally did break up with me, I was trying to persuade her to stay by getting her to tell me what was it that she broke up with me over in order to say I won't do it any more. So I was going over those things she was picking on, and she kept saying "no its not because of this" but then at one point she said "none of what you did is a reason, except for maybe a professor thing". But in any case, if I do look at her "other" nitpickiness, it DOES sound along the lines of what you said. Even though she was 29 when we started dating (and 31 when she broke up with me) I was the first guy she ever dated. Why? Because all the other guys party too much. And then during that last half a year of my relationship with her she was being nitpicky about ... guess what? Partying.

Then the other girl with whom it happened -- that I talked about here viewtopic.php?t=377751 -- she told me that the reason my telling her "I don't care what you think" affected her so much is because thats what her dad told her -- which ultimately caused her to distance away from her dad. Indeed, if I look back at the very first skype conversation I had with her, she told me that she really enjoyed talking to me because she had a really bad day and I made her feel so much better. So I asked her what was her bad day about? She said that she had to meet her dad in order for one of them to return the money they owned the other (don't remember who to whom) and her dad used that meeting as an opportunity to confront her as to why she wouldn't talk to him much. Now, one thing that she kept complimenting me on is that I was the only person who really cares what she thinks, and I was totally surprised why she said just the opposite about me than what most people say: Most people say I am the one who only talks about myself but she said I am the only one who cares what she thinks. Well, a couple of months later, when I ruined things with telling her "I don't care what you think" she told me that this is what her dad told her and thats why she distanced away from her dad. So now it all made sense. Her dad told her he didn't care what she thinks, so I became a good guy by caring (especially since she talked to me the day she had to see her dad) but then when I told her I don't care what she thinks two months later, I became just like her dad in her mind so now I had to be the one trying to push her to talk to me (just like her dad had to do ever since he said it several years ago).

Then, as far as that girl I mentioned whom I felt a lot of sympathy towards because she was crying (the one I was taking care of when she was sick). Well, in her case, she was neglected by her parents as well. Her dad was unwanted child, and her mom was less favorite of the two, and it reflected on the way they treated their kids, at least thats what she told me. She actually told me that her dad didn't want to have kids on the first place -- but her mom told her dad that if he won't agree to have kids, she would just poke the condom in order to force him to have kids anyway. And she also told him that the reason she wants to have kids is to have someone who actually cares about her (unlike him, who doesn't) yet interestingly enough he didn't get mad at that comment since he is just oblivious. So, due to the condom comment she made, he reluctantly agreed to have kids. In any case, she was saying that her mom had sleep opnea and due to this she was obsessed with endtimes. But she also used endtimes as a manipulation tool. She had house on top of the hills, and if she needed help with gardens she would say the world was coming to an end so that they would come there "to hide" and help her out. Similarly, the "world came to an end" during high school prom as well -- that way she kept Jennifer from taking part in it. On the other hand, her dad wasn't that controling at all; on the contrary, he just didn't care. Like he would watch TV all day long and not spend any time with her kids. So what she told me is that when I was doing physics too much and neglecting her, it "felt" the same way as her dad watching TV. Well, I was quite insulted by that remark because to me physics is important but TV is just a way to pass time. But she said thats what it felt like to her. And she was quite demanding of attention -- not only did she get upset by me doing physics too much, but she also got upset when her plans conflicted with my parents plans and I wasn't sure which one to go with (actually both her and my parents were upset -- each side wanting me to go with their plans); I ended up going with her plans. She said my "controling" parents reminded her of her controling mom and grandma, while me studying physics all the time reminded her of her dad.

Then there was a girl a year ago who broke up with me -- not over my throwing tantrum at her -- but over my TELLING HER how I threw a tantrum at people on campus (and she is few states away from me so she doesn't even know them). Now, in her case, she had physically abusive boyfriend and she still leaps when she walks due to him hitting her, so that could have been why she overreacted. I guess to be fair I "did" threw tantrum at her as well -- I told her she was fat and ugly a couple of weeks "before" that other tantrum -- but she didn't break up with me then, she broke up with me two weeks later when I told her about a tantrum I threw at the people on campus.

And then there was a girl two weeks ago -- at whom I had tantrum because I was upset at what professor told me during that meeting. Just like the other girl I mentioned, that girl was quite religions as well (except she was not southern baptist, she was messianic) and she, too, started brining up religious reasons to end things after my tantrum. Now, in her case one of her ex-s gave her a black eye and she said he was abusive in general. So that might have been why she reacted so strongly.

Now -- regardless of my tantrums and lack thereof -- I can't think of a single "normal" girl that ever dated me -- except for my first ex, she was normal. The vast majority of the girls I dated were obese (well the sothern baptist girl wasn't -- but she was still overweight), and most of them had other medical/psychological issues on top of that. So I guess what you said might be quite relevant.

Don't get your ideas on how relationships work from songs.

A beautiful lyrical description of codependence issues.

I want to know the context in which he said those things. Sometimes difficult people put you in difficult situations and you do something out of character.

Excuse me know while I spend the next half hour squinting int o my phone to read QTF's lenghthy answer
Kind of daunting....pls QTF!!

Wow, what a minefield. I don't know what to say.
I'm guessing that when they bring up those things that you have said, you need to give more of a heart felt apology, not a cerebral response that sounds like excusses but an apology that it full of contrition, affection and reassurance and really lay it on thicker than you are comfortable with. Hard to do if you are feeling ambiguous about the relationship and particularly hard for you because you are so candid. I'd say those relationships ran their natural course and all you can hope is to do better next time.

I actually remember that -- with that girl who was really sick -- at one point I did offer that heartfelt apology, and she accepted it, just like you said. She said "I missed you" (in reference to the fact that she missed how nicely I used to treat her back when she was sick and now I seemed to again treat her well) and yes we were really close for the subsequent day after my apology and she told me that the fact that I apologized in such a heartfelt way is what made all the difference.

The interesting thing is that I wasn't actually wanting to stay with her -- I felt like I "had" to stay with her because I didn't want to "betray" her or "hurt" her -- while wishing all along for her to break up with me so that I could finally be set free. So I guess maybe thats why my apology was so heart felt: I wasn't trying to fight to get her to stay (yet she stayed for yet another 9 months after that) rather I was upset that I hurt her. But in case of the other girls, when I am interested in them -- I am trying to get them to stay -- and that is when I am all about trying to prove that I am right which only pushes them away.

Could this be one reason why nice guys finish last? Jerks don't care about keeping a girl and thats why jerks aren't being pushy about this particular issue (even though they are jerks when it comes to everything else) whereas nice guys "are" being pushy -- even if they are doing it in some indirect ways?

I don't know, maybe you never made them feel great, maybe relgious digferences, maybe studies getting in the way.....who knows?
I don't know about nice guys finnishing last either, my sister is engaged to a very nice guy, maybe you're not as nice as you think. Sure wit h some couples there is a power imbalance, but if you were to try creating needyness, I doubt you would enjoy the result. I think encouraging better communication right from the start might be the way to go.

Hey, think about it, do nice guys really get left by the wayside? I don't see that.

I don't know why theae women left, ny guess is that you prefer physics and that's OK, you can strike a balance once you become a proffesor. You have some experiemce of relationships, they havn't been perfect, none of them are.

You can*t just decide "I'm going to be a great guy, who doesn't say those things", all you can do is acknowlwdge when you are being not so great, recognise it, bring it into ypur conciousness. You can do that any time starting from now, even if you are single.

QFT you told your girlfriend she was fat and ugly? Was that a defensive response? Had she hurt your feelings? If a boyfriend said that to me I would call him a sociopath and never speak to him again.
Are these tantrums/ outbursts out of your control? If so maybe a psychologist could help you.

He didn't elaborate on that particular incident, I'm interested too. I've been in a relationahip where these sort of things were implied regulary with lots of negative conparisons thrown into the mix too. It was done more skillfuly but the overall message was like, they could do so much better, that I had little value. All of it stemmed from their insecurity, none of it was said in anger but the effects were the same.

That's my interest in this thread. I've had other relationships where we had rows but there was a background of warnth and care that helped dissolve any silly comments that were said in the heat of the momment. I'd rather that kind of turbulance than a slow and steady erosion of my self worth.
QFT is a very candid guy, to his credit he is able to take critisism. I wonder what prompted to say that.

Last edited by Sahn on 26 Nov 2019, 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

For me if being with someone doesn't add to my feeling of well being then it's not working.
I don't understand people who say "I could do better." That is a cold and cruel thing to say and has nothing to do with the mutual support and nurturing that should be in a relationship.

I always fall in love heart first. I have never considered wealth or social status, never measured to a certain scale of merit. I just love. Perhaps some aspies lack the necessary filter that prevents people from saying hurtful things out loud? I cannot imagine myself in a relationship based on parameters and statistics, it's always an emotional connection with me. I guess I'm not the best person to give advice to QFT

Actually, it was implied or otherwise infered from musings like

" why did my x look a t younger women? The irony is I had more young people queing up to have sex with me than you can shake a stick at"

" Why did I sleep with X? I should have slept with Y, he's really hot, he really wanted to have sex with me"

"My ex still really wants to go out with me"

"I do tell you that I find you attractive, you have junkie chic, that's attractive"

"I can go into a bar and pull in 5 minutes"

"If a younger woman smiles at an older man, she's probably scared of him"

"Younger men want to have sex with older women"

Being aware of these thoughts, I found it hard to be anything but guarded. The person in question was in need of lots of validation but the atmosphere that this kind of thinking created was not conducive to that effect.

I'd rather have some door slamming and schreeking type drama once in a while than navigate around this weird architecture where worth is a quantified substance and sexuallity invades every area of human relationship and is bought to the fore.

This is because you are a good person with values. It is human nature to think that "the grass is greener in the neighbour's yard". It is ego.
Strive to find someone pure of heart like yourself.

Sex has permeated everything in our culture. Physical perfection and materialism is revered more than purity of heart and deed. Men and women worry more about breast implants and stupid tatooed eyebrows, abs and sexual promiscuity than integrity and altruism, just being kind. Kindness is becoming obsolete. It is a difficult time for young people to find peace of mind, a safe environment with a partner, just to enable each other to grow in love and commitment. To let down your guard and just be .
I hope both you and QFT find this.

I'm like Britney Spears "not so innocent",
but I'm trying to follow the advice that I gave QFT and work on conmunication from the outset, otherwise things go badly wrong. I have a tendency to contort around unreasonable emotional demands and get into codependent relationships. Its got to a point where I can be single and not feel like I'm missing out on anything.
I have no idea what will happen in the future, I've only attracted people with turbulant emotional lives. I guess they are attracted by my seemingly placid emotional state and I've been attracted my their outgoing perpective.
All I can do is reflect for now and try to be more realistic about what I'm able to sustain in any future relationship.

While I've always had a strong aversion (especially in a partner) towards drama and people who use their "temper" as an excuse to say or do whatever nastiness they feel like, I'm with you on this one, the level of passive-aggressiveness you describe must be extremely destructive in an insidious way

I've read so many stories here with aspies having that type of relationship with their parents, it's sad to see it extents to romantic involvements too

So it was almost a year ago. I was trying to publish math paper in a journal, the referees responded to me and I had to respond to the referees with a sharp deadline. Incidentally, that paper eventually got rejected a couple of months later so I am currently trying to send it to a different journal. But thats besides the point -- like I said it was two months later. At the day that I am talking about, I didn't know whether it would be accepted or rejected -- I was still working on my replies to referees.

But what happened was that I had only a day before the deadline. In situations like that, I typically go to either IHOP or Dennys or some other 24 hour place and work there in order to avoid the disractions. So I was working with Dennys starting from probably late morning or early afternoon, and then I worked there for almost 24 hours up until the early morning next day.

Now, even though I only offered food just once -- when I first came in -- the waitresses continued to give me coffee from time to time. So at night the waitress asked if I wanted a coffee and I took a moment to respond (by a moment I mean literally a couple of seconds not more than that) but before I had a chance to respond she left and then she never asked me again, so I was wondering if she was avoiding me. I took it personal since I noticed a pattern that young females are more likely to avoid me in this fashion than either older women or men of all ages. So sometimes I wonder whether its because women think I would harass them sexually -- which I know for a fact that I would never do -- and thats why it makes me angry that they would think that way. Now, nobody "told" me they thought I would do it, but how else would you logically explain why its younger women that avoid me the most? So I was obsessing over it and getting more and more frustrated, even though I didn't say anything.

Then, probably sometime between 5 AM and 6 AM I overheard a conversation between a male waiter and female waitress where they said that I was sitting here for almost 24 hours. So I walked up to them and asked why is it an issue. Then the male waiter said its not an issue they were just mentioning. But I said "well you don't mention everything about what everyone else does, so clearly it is an issue" and he repeated that its not an issue. So after I asked it three or four times and got the same answer, I gave up and came back to where I was sitting to continue working on my paper. But the other thing that bothered me is that when I was asking these questions, it was always the male waiter that was answering me. The female waitress was quiet and she also stood a couple of steps behind the male waiter, which made me wonder whether she thought I was going to physically attack her and needed male waiter to protect her from me. But you see, I never physically attack anyone, so why would she think I am that sort of person?! So that made me even more angry.

Then, probably around 7 AM, a male waiter approached my table -- I have no idea if it was the same male waiter or different one since I am horrible when it comes to remembering faces -- and told me that since I was there for almost 24 hours I have to leave. And I was like wait a second, didn't I ask that question like 4 or 5 times in a row and was told it was fine, so why is it now turns out that its not fine after all? When I asked him why is it a problem when I stay, he said that he doesn't think I cause problems to others, he is just concerned about my health since its not healthy to stay up for so long. But it makes no logical sense: I mean after I left I didn't go to sleep either, I still had to finish that paper (which I did) I simply did it elsewhere. And of course the other way in which it makes no sense is that if they are concerned about *me* rather than them (since thats what they said) why aren't they concerned about the fact that I have to finish that paper? Now, apart from those things, he also told me that they had a policy that one is not allowed to use wifi for more than two hours. That made no sense since LOTS of people are there for longer than two hours. But when I asked about it he said I can "be" there for around 6 hours, but I can only use wifi for 2 hours.

In any case, like I said, I had to leave Dennys and finish working on my paper elsewhere (I finished my paper in one of the libraries on campus). After I was completely done with it, I went to facebook and asked some woman the questions as to why the people at Dennys did what they did (no that woman was NOT my girlfriend -- in fact she was married to someone else -- I got connected to her on facebook because she was friend of a friend of my ex -- and I was asking her social situations questions from time to time). In any case, what she told me is that their reason that they were concerned about my health was a lie; she thinks the true reason is that I DID bother them by sitting there for almost 24 hours (especially since I didn't order anything new) and this type of behavior "might" make it suspicious that someone is homeless -- although she can't be completely positive about this one. And she also said that when I asked those questions four times in a row I probably came across as aggressive -- and this might have been what ultimately caused them to ask me to leave an hour later. Finally, she said that the issue with only using wifi for two hours is something they probably just made up since I was annoying. So I guess her answer made me even more angry at the people at Dennys, and since I didn't want to go to Dennys to scream at them, I decided to send an insulting message to my girlfriend instead.

Now, the people in Dennys are in New Mexico, that woman who answered my questions is in California, and my girlfriend was in Nebraska; so none of them know each other. I just yelled at her in order to let out my anger. Calling her fat was just the first thing that I could think of. If she wasn't fat I would think of something else to call her. I just wanted to call her "something" since I was angry at the people at Dennys.

Also -- since it was a year ago -- I didn't remember things correctly. Now that I re-read my correspondence with her what I found is that she DID break up with me after I called her fat -- then I persuaded her to get back together with me a couple weeks later -- and then a couple of weeks after that when I told her about the tantrum I threw on campus, then she broke up with me again and this time it was for good. The fact that she broke up with me over that second tantrum was especially strange since that second tantrum wasn't at her. That second tantrum was when I yelled "f-ck you" next to the dorm buildings of my school -- and then told her about it. She wasn't there -- she is in Nebraska I am in New Mexico -- so why would she break up with me over what I told her I did in New Mexico if she wasn't even there?

Anyway, here is what prompted me to scream "f-ck you" at the dormitories. So I had two asian roommates and one British roommates. All three of them had problems with my being messy -- although Asian roommates seemed to have said things about it more often. I lost the keys a couple of times before and they had to change locks each time I lost the keys. Anyway, this time I lost the keys again (I went to some one day trip on a train and probably lost them on a train) so they changed the keys yet again. But I didn't tell the roommates I lost the keys, since I don't want to face their frustration. So when people came to change the locks, my roommates were surprised why they were changing them again -- even though they just changed it a couple of weeks ago. I was at the room at the time, while the Vietnamese roommate was in a common area, so, from my room, I overheard the Vietnamese roommate asking that question. Now, I don't remember what exactly he said -- it was a year ago -- but what I do remember is that he used the phrase "this gentleman" in the middle of the sentence -- clearly referring to me. But how does he know that I lost the keys this time if I didn't even tell anyone I lost them on the first place? So its unfair that he DECIDED it must have been me, either due to my prior history of losing keys (which only happened once or twice, not mor than that) or just his general opinion of me that I am messy (he kept asking me to remove some tiny little dirt I left from cooking which I couldn't even see).

So I was angry he made that assumption. But I didn't say anything: I just stayed quietly in my room. But then, at around 10 PM, when nobody was in the common area any more, I went there and smashed the dishwashing soap against the floor (kind of like saying "you think I am messy? Fine, let me create even bigger mess than I normally do"). But then I immediately got scared that I would get into trouble with the university, so I quickly cleaned it up and went to the grocery store to buy a new soap instead. But -- in my way to grocery store -- I went to the housing office and told them what I did and asked them if I get into trouble. They say I won't be -- especially since I told them I am buying a new soap -- by the way the idea of buying a new soap was mine, not theirs, but they said they agree with my idea.

But then -- after I was done with buying the soap and brought it into the kitchen -- I went outside again to call my mom and tell her what happened. So my mom said it was really stupid of me that I told the housing office what I did, because now I have created a bad reputation for myself since they might spread what I told them to others. So I was asking my mom "what can I do? what can I do? I really want to fix it" but she was too angry to give me any constructive advice (she did give one an hour later, but not right then and there) so then I started to get more and more agitated over an idea of my bad reputation spreading. So I was like "okay fine, I will spread even more bad reputation about me" so I screamed "f-ck you" so that people in the dorms would hear me (I was outside next to the dorm buildings). But then when I got even more upset about the fact that I can't track down who heard me screaming this so that I could "undo" it, I ran into the housing office and screamed "f-ck you" at the person in the front desk. But then I quickly apologize and told him what happened, and then he took me to a privite room and had an hour long conversation trying to make me feel better -- while my mom was still on the phone with me and kept telling me to cut it short.

Anyway, the next day I told my girlfriend what happened and this was what she broke up with me over.

So to sum it up, the incident with Dennys is what caused me to call her fat, then she broke up with me and came back two weeks later. Then the incident with the keys and the soap is what made me yell f-ck you in the middle of the dorms -- and that is what she broke up with me for the final time. The first incident is the only one where I put *her* down. Yet the second incident is the one that made her break up for good.