Using religion as a reason not to date me

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I don't have guy friends either. Basically, I don't have friends of either gender. But I don't care about guy friends, I am only caring about female friends. It was true back when I was in committed relationship too. I remember being in long distance relationship and talking with my then-girlfriend for hours as to why I don't have any friends -- meaning female friends.

There was a time when I worried about male friends, though. Back when I was doing a postdoc in India at some point I thought "okay, women are not going to talk to me anyway, but how come the guys aren't talking to me either". And then when finally a couple of guys talked to me I was happy that they did since I was desperate. I talked to those guys about other people not talking to me and, evidently, I was talking about guys rather than girls. So one of the guys said "you are straight, right? So why are you concerned about talking to guys? I can teach you how to talk to girls" and gave me few pointers. In any case, I wasn't going to "date" any girls because a) I already had a girlfriend in the US and I talked to her over skype b) I only date White girls. However, I was highly preferring Indian girls to Indian guys as far as friends go -- so that again shows just how much I value female friendship over male friendship. But in any case, the interesting thing is that the Indian guy told me I shouldn't care about male *friends* because I am straight So I guess I am not the only one who operates this way. But you are telling me the opposite that *not* having male friends would make me look gay. I doubt its a cultural thing, I mean in India friendships are probably even more gender segregated -- although it didn't seem to apply to that particular institute I was at: the young generation I saw in the Institute didn't care and were friends with people regardless of their gender.

It’s good to have friends, period.

As long as their real friends instead of fake friends who only wanna use & take advantage of you. It can be difficult for some of us including me to discern the real from the fake 1s at least in the begging anyways.

What is the connection between being a player and the gender of your friends?

^^Maybe people see him hanging around a predominately female crowd and think that he is "playing the field." People with dirty minds tend to go there in a hurry.

I'd say it's nice to have good true friends.

But I thought the guys that hate players are the socially awkward ones like myself. On the other hand the super confident guys that like to make fun of others are bullying the guys that are "not" players? So I was wondering whether having female friends is what disqualified him from being a player (since players avoid friend zone) and that's what brought that kind of teasing?

But then again the opposite scenario is also possible. Maybe they thought he *was* a player and they pretended to make fun of him since they didn't want competition.

Speaking of playing a field, I saw the cases where guys would chat up a waitress and she would innocently talk to them and I would think to myself "doesn't she see that they just view her as a piece of meat, why is she acting as if they are genuine". I guess she probably sees it, but she doesn't mind it since she is attracted to their "game" so they both pretend. But it makes me super frustrated since in my case I do look for genuine connection (I just feel like genuine connection with a female is more valuable than with a male) but nobody gives me a time of a day.

By the way I don't make that kind of assumption blindly. I mean if, instead of waitress, I look at how guys and girls interact in the library or even in caffeteria, then in many cases it is genuine. So I can tell these things apart.

Both seeing genuine and non-genuine connections bothers me, just in different ways. If it is genuine, I feel like "I can totally relate to them, why don't they see that deep down I am every bit as much as they are". If it is not genuine then I feel like "I am being perceived as even worse than a player since that girl puts up with a player but not with me".

I live in the Bible Belt so should that surprise you?

When I would play an instrument, for instance (i.e., clarinet, fiddle, flute, or piano). Many people own pianos, and most churches also have pianos, so I would sit down and hammer out a recognizable tune. Sometimes, I would bring a smaller instrument with me and try it out "... just to check the acoustics". I am no virtuoso, but people do tend to gravitate toward others who can demonstrate some musical talent.

Did I just now hear someone say, "Oh, no! I tried that and it didn't work for me so I never tried it again!"?

Well, I tried it, and it didn't work for me, either. So I tried it again, and it still didn't work. So I tried yet again ... and again ... and again ... many times and eventually it did work. It took years, but the key is to keep trying and never give up.

The ability to play musical instruments is crazy like that.

One of my favorite things to do is walk into a room and start playing the recorder. People will come to me and say ,"What's THAT?" "It's a recorder." "Are you serious? I used to play one of those in elementary school!"

I can't say it out loud, but I'm thinking, "uh huh, and you SUCKED at it, didn't you?" It's attractive because people don't take it seriously, music teachers generally do a bad job because they lack musicianship themselves, and people won't perform well when the expectations are low. What makes it attractive is that a high level of skill on something as simple as the Baroque recorder shows that the performer has a high expectation of himself, so much so that not even the little things are taken for granted. Girls dig that kind of thing.

Not a musical example, but I brought a gf home once and took her on a walking tour of the family property. We walked down to the pond and I showed her a dirt dauber rolling up a ball of mud to take to its nest. Ever see a college girl's eyes light up like an 8-year old kid?

You cannot achieve mastery over music, art, or nature without persistent practice. The time and energy investment is worth it.

If you take up music to attract women, though, you will fail. If you don't actually enjoy what you're doing, that's going to come out in the music you make. Learn an instrument because you want to make beautiful music. The rest (girls, etc.) will work itself out.

Q: How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
A: Practice, practice, practice!

Q: How do you get a girlfriend?
A: Practice, practice, practice!

Never give up.

Now that you spell it out this way, I can see how it can pay off. But it strikes me as too much time investment. I guess if I didn't have any direction in my life as of now I might do it. But since my current priorities are physics and mathematics -- in which I am falling behind -- I feel like it is a bad idea to develop some brand new interest out of nowhere just so that I can impress people.

However, a better idea might be to capitalize on one of the interests I already have. One example of what I am already doing is long distance running. And back when I was in high school it *did* make me popular during that one semester I was in a cross country team and was the top runner on that team. I am not sure if I am allowed to get on one of the university teams -- perhaps they are for undergrads and I am grad student -- but maybe I can look for some other races.

I been invited to one of the races that happen once a year by a woman I knew from my previous grad school whom I ran into in church. That race didn't help me much since, like I said, its only once a year. Pe rhaps it would have helped if I were to actually win -- I was actually pretty close to winning my age group, but not quite there. In any case, the other thing that might help me is if I find some running group that meets more regularly. I am not sure where to look though.

I'll put it this way: If you practice an instrument for 4 hours each day, every day, it will take you about 6 or 7 years to master that instrument well enough to impress other people and possibly earn a decent living at it.

Imagine ... in 6 or 7 years, you could have attractive women asking you to make music for them ... or even with them ...

What would your social life be like in 6 or 7 years without any musical talent? Likely the same as it is right now.

Here is the question though. When a girl rejects me and I tell her I can change, she doesn't believe me. Why is that? I thought you just told me people change with practice -- which I happened to agree with -- so why don't women believe that?

When nobody believes me when I say I can change that is a major discouragement. Maybe if I had more outside encouragement in the form of people believing me, I would feel more motivated to make some changes.

6 or 7 years is way too long as far as I am concerned -- especially since I am 40.

In any case, even with my current social skills, it took less than that. I had my first girlfriend in 2003--2004, the second one I had in 2007--2009, and the third one I had in 2012--2014. Now, if I look at the short-term relationships, then I remember three relationships in 2006 (the first lasted a month and the other two lasted few months each) I also remember one in 2009 -- 2011 ( but that was a rollercoaster with the woman constantly breaking up with me for other guys and coming back to me) and I remember a few months relationship in 2017 (but that woman was infertile so I know she wasn't right for me since I want kids, I was just desperate). There was also one girl in 2005 who approached me, but whom I turned off because I stupidly told her about my mom babying me. One thing I can't forgive myself for is the woman in grocery store in 2002, a waitress in a restaurant also in 2002, and a woman in Jimmy Jones around 2005 or 2006 that kept chatting me up but I totally ignored them because it didn't cross my mind that they might have been interested in me until I was looking back at it several years later.

In any case, the point I am trying to make is that it took a lot less than 6 years to meet a woman -- in the past anyway -- but I don't know about now: I am getting older and I suspect age makes it even more difficult. But getting older means I *certainly* don't want to wait for 6 years.

You are making the matter more complicated than it should be. If a woman rejects you, just smile, wish her well, and move on. Don't ever say "I can change for you", because that only makes you look desperate, and desperation is a definite turn-off to any woman. Don't bargain, beg, bribe or plead with her, either -- that's even worse.

In my experience, most women seem to respect a man who has a laid-back attitude when it comes to getting acquainted. Some women also seem to reject a man's first advances just to see how he will react, and if he remains calm and in good humor, she may give him another chance later (no guarantees, though).

Relax.

But isn't it a bit weird that spending 6 years on instruments to get a woman is not desperate, yet promising to change things that are much smaller is?



Are you trying to say that rejection is a type of a test? I guess I tend to take things at face value, particularly if she gives reasons for rejection.

Also, if you truly thought it was a test, why would you say "there are no guarantees" at the end. Wouldn't making a rejection permanent ruin the whole purpose of supposed test?