Is It Our Fault We're Alone? - My Opinion Has Changed

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The_Face_of_Boo
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19 May 2020, 3:11 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
People transcend their genes all the time.

Both my parents were good-looking, successful NTs. I turned out to be something like a “runt of the litter”—but I didn’t let that stop me.

I’m 5 inches shorter than both my father and brother.


Maybe you have a 12 inches salmon. :mrgreen:

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kraftiekortie
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19 May 2020, 4:06 pm

I am an illustration of the notion—that “it’s not the meat, it’s the motion.”

I strongly feel that an appeal to “genes” is a gross oversimplification.



shortfatbalduglyman
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19 May 2020, 4:52 pm

Not everyone wants to get married

Different people find different things attractive

Not everyone married has a good physique, career, or a driver's license

Some people are naturally fatter or less attractive than others (set point theory)

It is a good thing to do your best, doing your best doesn't guarantee the outcome

In some cities, a lot of traffic and not a lot of parking. It is easier to take public transportation than drive a car

Some diseases and drugs cause weight gain

The world needs a wide variety of occupations to function. It is not happening that everyone could be whatever they want to be when they grow up

In United States the divorce rate is fifty percent

Not everyone is good at their job

Not everyone likes their job

Not everyone has a job

Just because you don't have a spouse, doesn't mean that you are morally inferior to someone that has a spouse

There are many reasons to get married

There are many reasons not to get married

Being single has advantages and disadvantages

Regardless of marital status, "life" goes on and on and on and on and on


:mrgreen:

Match for com

:D



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 May 2020, 5:05 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I am an illustration of the notion—that “it’s not the meat, it’s the motion.”

I strongly feel that an appeal to “genes” is a gross oversimplification.


Shake it baby!



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19 May 2020, 6:01 pm

CarlM wrote:
I think you understand that getting on life on track must come first. Find a romantic partner is often a daunting effort for us. I think you would be wise to hold off on it until you have your life on track.

And if one can never have their life on track?


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The Grand Inquisitor
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19 May 2020, 6:35 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s nobody’s “fault,” in my opinion.

Society is partly to “blame.”

But it’s not high school in the adult world. If you realize that, you have a better chance.

I was utterly unsuccessful in high school. If we still lived under high school rules in adulthood, I would still be a virgin to this day.

Yeah, to clarify, my saying that I don't feel as accountable for my situation now as I once did, doesn't mean that I'm now instead blaming other people. I don't really think it's anyone's fault either. I'm not sure that I'd even go as far as to blame society.
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You can never say it's society's fault.

The society dictates us the rules, we can't dictate the society.

- Partially it's our fault.
- Partially it's our PAST fault (not working on ourselves enough when we were young).
- Partially it's our PARENT's fault, no one really talk about this but early child/teen development is mainly parents' responsibility, especially if the child is behind their peers, many parents don't pay attentions to these stuff, they don't notice that their child is being a loner or not having enough friends. Many parents just care for schooling and grades, but not the social well being of a child.
- But mostly, it's our DNA's fault; all the above parts are like only 10%, this one is 90%.

I more or less agree with this.

martianprincess wrote:
It's important to distinguish between the impact that extrinsic forces may have had on you while acknowledging your own strengths and shortcomings.

Asking myself if it's my "fault" that I'm single isn't really productive. I could place blame on myself or other people if I wanted to, but that feels counterproductive to developing myself as a healthier person. Finding blame or faults implies that I'm owed something I don't have (e.g. an apology when I end up single) but no one owes me a romantic relationship.

It does feel pretty exhausting and draining when I feel like I have to put more effort into things and work harder just to have a "normal" life because of my autism and ADHD, including romantic relationships. I sometimes wish I was "normal." But I think it's imperative not to let bitterness and resentment color our perceptions of ourselves in a way we might have a difficult time escaping. We have to work with it, not against it.

The reason I ponder this isn't because I want to go finger-wagging at anyone, but rather because I wish to gain a greater understanding of how and why my situation has transpired the way it has, and from that, figure out the best way forward.

If I was involved in a conflict, I would also want to figure out to what degree I was at fault, in order to both figure out what I think is appropriate restitution, and to learn what I can from the situation so I can use that knowledge to inform my conduct in the future.



kraftiekortie
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19 May 2020, 6:44 pm

Many times, there really isn’t a “reason” why certain circumstances happen in life.

This is why I feel like the search for any one “reason” could lead to over-analysis which could very well lead to “paralysis by analysis”.



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19 May 2020, 9:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
If an individual can make the right choices and take the right actions to relieve his or her loneliness, and doesn't, then it is the individual's fault.  Choosing to do nothing to improve one's situation is choosing failure -- same for giving up.  Choosing to do nothing -- or not choosing to do anything -- to "stand out" as a socially desirable person is also the individual's fault.

There's no guaranteed path to finding a partner. The best you can do is maximise your appeal as a potential romantic partner, maximise your exposure to potential romantic partners and hope for the best. While I agree that that's generally the best path to take, and I'd say that the more you're working on improving your appeal, the less culpable you are for your lack of a love life, I wouldn't impute 100% culpability on an individual who was born with a condition that impairs their social skills for their lack of a love life even if that individual is doing nothing to improve themselves. Given the high prevalence of dating issues for people on the spectrum, I think that being on the autism spectrum must necessarily play some sort of a role in those individuals' lack of success.

Fnord wrote:
Blaming anyone or anything other than oneself is abdicating responsibility for one's loneliness when the only person who can relieve that loneliness is the lonely person.

Even if I accepted that the individual is entirely responsible for their inability to get a romantic relationship, the statement "the only person who can relieve an individual's loneliness is that individual" is oxymoronic in this context. You necessarily need the romantic interest of another person in order for that loneliness to dissipate.

Fnord wrote:
Of course, if a person is simply incapable of doing whatever it takes to relieve his or her loneliness, then maybe that person would be better off to simply accept their life of social solitude.

If they can come to terms with a life of social solitude, that's a reasonable option to choose, but not everybody is capable of coming to terms with the fact that they'll never be able to experience genuine romance. Some people would rather cease to exist than live out a life of social solitude.



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20 May 2020, 3:26 am

Magna wrote:
I'll try not to give you advice, since you probably feel you've received enough of that and you're not asking for any in this thread. Instead I'll comment on some things as my observations.

You're more than welcome to give advice if you have some that you want to give.

Magna wrote:
Things you mention that you've done or not done have value in your life entirely independent of being a recipe for finding a girlfriend.

This is true, and I'd probably strive to achieve a good number of them even if I already had a girlfriend, or didn't care about getting a girlfriend. The reason that I mention them in relation to getting a girlfriend is because I've had very little success in garnering romantic interest, and I'm under the impression that improving upon the things in this list would increase my chances of experiencing romantic success. That's not the sole motivation for achieving these things, but when thinking about why I might have such a hard time attracting women, these shortcomings come to mind.

Some of the things I referenced on this list have more to do with my past, and are either no longer problems, or well on their way to being solved.

Magna wrote:
>"I've been overweight" Losing weight improves a person's health and often improves their overall well being.

I've struggled with being a bit on the overweight side, and indulgent eating habits for a fair portion of my life. Throughout late 2017 to early-mid 2018 during a particularly difficult time, I went from being a little bit overweight at 192lbs to being obese at 254lbs, and later peaking at 267lbs in mid 2019.

After a couple of failed weight loss attempts, I managed to figure out how to fundamentally change my relationship with food and drink, and on July 1st 2019, I incrementally cut out the things I was consuming that kept me fat, only allowing myself to have them on special occasions.

Since then, I've gone from 267lbs to 190lbs, and I'm continuing to lose weight (though much slower than I was originally). I'm only 14lbs away from being in the 'healthy' BMI range for my height, and I have every intention of continuing with the changes I've made to my dietary approach permanently.

Magna wrote:
>"I don't have my career figured out" If you're able and if you have the desire to work, getting a job can also improve your life.

I have a job, but it's a low-skilled minimum wage dead-end job. I don't hate my job, but I feel like I have the potential to do better for myself. When I say I don't have my career figured out, I mean that I don't know what I ultimately want to do career-wise, and I don't know how to go about figuring it out and making it happen.

Magna wrote:
>"I've never moved out from my mother's place" If you want to live on your own, doing so could also improve your life.


Other than because I think it might help my dating chances, my interest in moving out mainly stems from the desire to have more of my own space, and be less restricted by limited space. There are three of us living in a small two bedroom unit, and while I'm lucky enough to get one of the bedrooms to myself, there isn't enough space for me to have a couple of things that I'd like to have, like an electronic drum kit and maybe a pool table.

If I really wanted to, I could probably afford to move out on my own. The problem is that renting on my own would gobble up my income and greatly impede on my ability to save my money, which is very important to me. I understand that I'm not going to be able to save as much money if I move, but the amount it would cost me to rent alone ends up being more than a third of my net income, and with other expenses on top of that, that's not a figure I can work with.

I'm not keen on the idea of a room-mate situation, mainly because I run the risk that the room-mate has/gets a significant other and has them over all the time, and given what I'm struggling with, this would be detrimental to my mental health.

Magna wrote:
>"I don't have a driver's license and have never pursued one" Do you need one where you live? Many people live in areas with robust public transportation and don't need a drivers license. However, if not having a drivers license limits your mobility greatly and you think you'd be able to drive a car safely, getting a license could also improve your life.

I live in one of the bigger Australian cities, so I can get by without a driver's license without being greatly limited. The two main concerns I have about not having a driver's license are whether it would turn a potential partner off of dating me, and the limitations that not having a license might place on my employment opportunities. In the absence of these two concerns, I might be interested in getting a driver's license in the future, but it wouldn't be something I'd have any sense of urgency about.

Magna wrote:
>"I spent a whole year of my life unemployed and getting high all day" Stopping the habitual use of drugs improves a person's physical, mental and emotional well being.

The year I was referencing here was 2017. I've since gotten a job and been able to regulate my pot usage to a degree that I think is appropriate. I applied some of the same principles I'd used to regulate my pot usage in order to change my dietary approach for the weight loss I've achieved.


Magna wrote:
>"I haven't put in significant efforts to improve my social skills" If you desire to interact more with people in general, working on social skills (independent of focusing specifically on dating skills) could also improve your life.

The main reason I care about improving my social skills is for dating and finding a partner. If I already had a partner or didn't care about dating, I don't think I'd care much about improving my social skills. My social skills are good enough to where I can get by.


Magna wrote:
>"I no longer tend to put myself in situations where I can meet new people." Do you want to meet new people? If so, putting yourself in situations where you can meet them could improve your life. Harder now with the virus, but hopefully that will be temporary.

At this stage, my desire to meet new people is pretty much exclusively present because I want to improve my chances of finding a romantic partner. While I'm open to making new platonic friends, I'm not motivated enough by the prospect to take any proactive action towards doing so.

This may seem paradoxical, but I suspect that I won't have a particular interest in expanding my circle of platonic friends until after I've been able to get a romantic relationship.



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20 May 2020, 3:48 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Many times, there really isn’t a “reason” why certain circumstances happen in life.

This is why I feel like the search for any one “reason” could lead to over-analysis which could very well lead to “paralysis by analysis”.

I find it difficult to believe that it all boils down to the fact that I've been extremely unlucky in love. Given that there seem to be commonalities between me and other men who experience the same problems, and given that I (like many of us on the spectrum) have a history of struggling socially and struggling to make friends, it would make a lot more sense to me that there's something about me that has a negative impact on my ability to get a romantic relationship rather than it all being random bad luck.

If I was to accept that there's no "reason" behind my apparent inability to get a relationship, what steps could I then take towards changing my luck and getting a relationship?

If I was able to not worry about getting a relationship, and I lived my life just doing what I want to do without thinking about it much, I almost certainly would never get a relationship, because as it is, I'm lucky if I can meet a new woman once every 3 months, and I'm even more lucky if I get to talk to them for more than 5 minutes.

I can't see my love life improving unless something changes, which probably isn't going to happen if I adopt a lackadaisical approach towards getting a relationship.



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20 May 2020, 5:22 am

There are many things about me that could very well negatively impact my ability to find romance.

1. I’m a short man. Just under 5 foot 5.

2. I’m overweight. About 180 pounds.

3. I dress like a nerd. I used to wear dirty clothes, too. My clothes sometimes don’t fit too well.

4. I can go on and on about something I’m interested in, and have bored many people.

5. I have no mechanical ability. I’m useless in a DIY sense.

6. I sometimes don’t listen too well.

7. I can be stubborn and persistent in arguing a point.

8. I have little charisma

9. I don’t exude intelligence. I don’t convey knowledge well.

10. I take myself too seriously.

11. My sense of humor is still not as “advanced” as many people here. People living “odd” lifestyles tend to scorn me because Im too strait-laced. I once lost a lover because I didn’t smoke weed.

And many other things.



Yet, I’ve done okay, somehow. My solution (and it worked!) WAS adopting a “lackadaisical attitude.”



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20 May 2020, 5:59 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are many things about me that could very well negatively impact my ability to find romance.

1. I’m a short man. Just under 5 foot 5.

2. I’m overweight. About 180 pounds.

3. I dress like a nerd. I used to wear dirty clothes, too. My clothes sometimes don’t fit too well.

4. I can go on and on about something I’m interested in, and have bored many people.

5. I have no mechanical ability. I’m useless in a DIY sense.

6. I sometimes don’t listen too well.

7. I can be stubborn and persistent in arguing a point.

8. I have little charisma

9. I don’t exude intelligence. I don’t convey knowledge well.

10. I take myself too seriously.

11. My sense of humor is still not as “advanced” as many people here. People living “odd” lifestyles tend to scorn me because Im too strait-laced. I once lost a lover because I didn’t smoke weed.

And many other things.



Yet, I’ve done okay, somehow. My solution (and it worked!) WAS adopting a “lackadaisical attitude.”

When you implemented your solution, were you in a position where you would frequently or at least sometimes meet women, or were you in a position similar to mine where it was rare that you'd meet new women?

When you changed your approach and stopped pursuing romance, did you stop making an effort to find a partner though still think about it frequently, or did you stop making an effort to find a partner and stop thinking about it as well? If the latter, how did you get yourself to stop thinking about it?



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20 May 2020, 6:10 am

I pretty much stopped seeking to “meet women” outside my work environment. Inevitably, I would socialize with women within my women-dominated work environment. This gave me the opportunity to “practice,” so to speak. I guess living in a large urban area helped matters.

After a while, I feel like my outward presentation to women changed. And my conversations changed to my interests outside of finding romance. I began to see women as being human, rather than being mystical, enigmatic creatures. I began to acquire confidence through these conversations, and through “practice” in how to “listen” to people. I learned, in essence, not to “try too hard.”

I continued to think about women, though I stopped making a concerted effort to seek a relationship. I would gather that you probably know my solution when I felt biological urges which could not be satisfied by a loving woman.



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20 May 2020, 9:39 am

In my case I was born with various physical & mental disabilities besides Aspergers which caused me to majorly struggle with lots of life things including romantic relationships. It does look like I got a raw deal in life compared to most but I'm NOT gonna say I think it's society's fault or it's my fault regarding my life situation & how much & how long I struggled to get a romantic relationship. Some people just have more problems than others & things may not be due to anybody's fault. Maybe the person has disabilities or illnesses, maybe they were a victim of a natural disaster, maybe the person is less smart, maybe the person just has poor judgement & decision making skills, maybe the person is just always in the wrong place at the wrong times & there's no way anybody can predict em(random chance), & there can be lots of other reasons too. Those things may be nobody's fault but that doesn't mean that there aren't ways those unlucky people & society can improve things for those people. In my case I know I made LOTS of mistakes throughout my life but I'm trying to learn from them & make things better in the future but I also know I have to be realistic. I can only handle so much. I do feel I could of done better if I would of had better medical care & resources & help with life stuff but things are what they are. I won't get anywhere if I go around saying that the world f#cked me over so I'm not gonna do a d@mn thing to help myself since society owes me. I gotta play the cards I'm dealt as best I can.



The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
You can never say it's society's fault.

The society dictates us the rules, we can't dictate the society.
That's exactly the problem.


ProfessorJohn wrote:
I see people all the time who don't have their life on track who have romantic partners. That really makes life confusing.
Same.


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20 May 2020, 12:16 pm

cberg wrote:
Case in point, you're discussing all this without any discussion of the individual. Autistic people this, autistic people that.  I'm over it. Stop reducing our love lives to stereotypes.
Get over it.  This isn't all about you.



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20 May 2020, 12:24 pm

Nope, we're on the Fnord show.


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