How do women view me?

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OP's.

The point of the friends first approach is that you would not be "chasing" her during those first 6 months. You would not even make a decision about whether to "chase" her until after you've known her for a while.

Of course this does not make make sense if your decisions about whom to "chase" are based purely or primarily on looks and other superficialities. But, if your decisions are based primarily on anything deeper, then it does make sense, because the deeper things cannot be known until after you've known someone for a while.

I don't know, maybe it's because you're an old woman and your dating mindset is different compared to a young man. The way old women and young men approaching dating is probably different because you're older and your priorities are different.


Here's the mindset of most young men in terms of dating. We see a girl and we know within 3-5 seconds whether or not we would ever date/have sex with her, and yes it's based on how she looks. Physical appearance is very important for most men BUT it's not the only thing that's important. We will take a girl's personality, values, and lifestyle into consideration BUT ONLY if she passes the looks test and we are somewhat physically attracted to her. Guys have different physical types and preferences but generally speaking, guys are pretty open minded as long as the girl is at least somewhat attractive.


If a guy finds a girl physically unattractive from the get go, he's probably not going to change his mind. It doesn't matter how nice she is, how much they have in common, if a guy finds a girl ugly, then he'll probably never consider her as a dating partner. He might have sex with her because he's desperate but he'll never want to make her his girlfriend.


So yes, looks are VERY important for men when considering romantic partners as your appearance is what ultimately gets you considered as a potential romantic prospect. And it doesn't take long (maybe 3-5 seconds) to determine if we find someone attractive or not.

In other words, you don't even consider a woman - attractive or not - as interesting as a person, outside of dating/sex context?

BTW, according to your view, I became an old woman at the age of 12

With an attitude like yours, it is no wonder you have no luck with the ladies!

I'm just telling you how most men think, whether they'll admit to it or not.

A lot of guys ARNET going to be honest with you either because they're trying to be polite or they don't want to ruin their social reputation by appearing to be shallow. I don't really care and i'll give it to you straight because iv'e got nothing to lose.


A lot of guys (not all of them) only want to be your friend because they're attracted to you and/or they want to have sex with you. That's why lots of young women, especially if they're single, have what you called "orbiters". Men who are friends with a girl because they like her and they think that by doing nice things for her will make her realize that she likes him and wants to have sex with him. Almost every single decently attractive 20 something year old woman has dealt with at least one orbiter in her lifetime.


A big reason WHY lots of guys do orbiting behavior is because many guys get told that if you like a girl, you have to be friends with her first, oftentimes by a female figure such as a mom. Another reason is because guys are too scared to make a move.


But here's the thing that most women won't tell you. While you're befriending this girl in the hopes that she comes around some day, she's signing up for online dating and going on dates, and sometimes even hooking up with other guys. While you're deep in the friend-zone, the other guy who she met on Tinder and who wasn't afraid of letting his intentions be known, is currently in her room having sex with her.

And when you finally get the courage to make a move after a year of knowing her, she gives you the "i'm not looking for a relationship right now, lets just be friends" talk. Two month later, her facebook account says she's in a relationship.


This scenario is something that is very very very common because guys are blue pilled into believing being friends with a girl first is the best tactic and that somehow, she'll give him a chance if he's nice to her for a long time.

^ Where do you get this data from?

Because my knowledge on male-female friendships comes from doing things together with people I call my friends. Almost of of them are now married or in long-term relationships, like I am, too. We have fun doing things together without ever considering dating.

Which is exactly why a single, intelligent, and reasonably attractive man will "play the field" -- not to have many sex partners, but to have many opportunities for that one perfect relationship that all men want.  What you describe is like sending a résumé to the same employer every week, and hoping that eventually that employer will see you as a valuable employee and not the bothersome pest that you are.  Instead, you should be like the person who sends résumés out to many employers -- even those employers that may not be on the 'A' list -- in the hope that one of them might invite you into their office.Uh-oh ... INCEL ALERT!!

Darn, I missed it!

But that answers my question about Muse933277's sources of "knowledge"

No worries ... at least we now know where he is coming from.

Oh no, i'm not an incel.

I used to be an involuntarily celibate but the thought of dating either of you has turned me into a voluntarily celibate.

Goal achieved

A moderator note: incel stuff is unwelcome on WP as it tends to be extremely sexist.

You thought of dating ME?  That also explains a lot!

Not only is Incel stuff sexist, it's total BS.

Magz would have certainly been right up my alley, had circumstances been different.

You could ask this same question in the Women's section of WP.

Well, I see the direction this thread has taken.

Here are my thoughts: the whole 3 seconds to know if you're attracted to someone refers to basic physical sexual attraction. Of course making a decision if you actually want to pursue a potential relationship with someone you're attracted to takes a lot longer than that. But here's the kicker: most people will only ever consider dating someone they feel that initial physical attraction to. Once person A has determined they're physically attracted to person B, they will then proceed to learn more about person B in order to evaluate if they want to date them or not. At this stage, they will decide based on secondary characteristics like honesty, values, sense of humor, etc. However, if person A decides within those 3 seconds that they are not physically/sexually attracted to person B, then they will only ever consider them "friend material" regardless of how high they score on the secondary characteristics.