Why it might *appear* we're uninterested in dating

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I cant speak for others on the spectrum but I would have problems with initiating a sex conversation with someone I just met & started dating the typical offline NT way. I would be worried that she would immediately assume I'm expecting sex during that date since I brought up sex directly. She'd label me a pig or creep & that would be the end of things. If I don't bring sex up & don't respond appropriately to her hints & signals, she would assume I'm only interested in friendship with her & she'd probably quickly stop dating me due to her wanting more than friendship. I imagine it would be similar if we've been on a few dates & I were to bring up the topic of long term outcome of our relationship like the possibility of marriage some time in the future. I'm very used to others misinterpreting my directness & straightforwardness in negative ways. I have a majorly hard time understanding & realizing subtly & indirectness & I really need others to be straightforward & direct with me. It's a major reason why it's better for me to be in a relationship with someone on the spectrum. With NTs I feel I need to overly explain my behavior so I don't get misinterpreted & my attempts at explaining come off as argumentative & anal-retentive.

To be fair, if this would be a difficult conversation then the couple shouldn't be having sex. I can imagine that subsequent conversations about STI, pregnancy, abortion, etc. would be even more difficult than the one about consent. I'm a strong believer that people shouldn't be doing "adult" activities if they can't have "adult" conversations. I'm not criticising you for that Nick. I'm talking about all people whether NT or not. From what I gather a lot of people just jump into bed with hookups or committed partners without much confidence to talk about what's important, which would include consent, birth control, boundaries etc., but also the good stuff like sharing what you like or don't like as things progress.

This might sound like a buzzkill but it actually makes for amazing sex when both people know they have a voice.

In terms of having the conversation with someone you've just met, I agree that would be awkward. Contrary to what's shown in the media I don't think many strangers hook up consensually out of the blue. Most of the time consent happens in stages so you'd be getting consent to hold their hand or kiss them and that would change over time to more. If you're already kissing someone it wouldn't seem forward to see what their thoughts are about boundaries or limits leading to sex.

I wouldn't be comfortable having sex with someone if I wasn't yet comfortable talking about sex with them.

I have a real live story that happened pretty similarly to what I described.

The last date I went on, the woman ended up coming over afterwards.

This was 8 years ago (so I don't remember all the details). I just remember we gradually progressed until eventually ending up in bed. Yet I don't recall either of us explicitly saying we wanted sex. On both of our parts, we were merely following the other party's social cues.

As for how autism factors in:

I covered it on my OP when I pointed out how, even neurotypicals can have a hard enough time reading clues of whether the other party wants sex. Needless to say, reading sex-related clues are even harder for those of us on the spectrum.

Well-said. It's a real catch 22. Mention the topic of sex on the first date, get branded a pig/creep. Yet when/if the other party drops hints of wanting sex, if we fail to pick up on the hints (which, being on the spectrum, there's a high chance we'll fail to pick up on the hints), the other party will assume we only want friendship.

I mentioned on a prior post how my last date was 8 years ago. Since then, I've mainly relied on escorts. In a way, escorts are good if you're on the spectrum. Because you don't need to read clues. Both parties know right off the bat what the other party wants (One party wants sex, the other party wants money, and is 100% willing to give sex as long as you give money)

^^

Right. I agree with that. It might be harder to read cues, but it's not a problem for any person NT or ND if they learn how to compensate by using clear communication instead of reading body signals. Reading body signals isn't always reliable anyway, and can be open to misinterpretation by all genders and all neurotypes. Unless the autistic person refuses to communicate verbally for consent, there shouldn't be a problem. If they do refuse to communicate verbally, then that was a problem of their own choosing, unfortunately.

A lot of the guys I worked with had these types of stories about their 1st dates or after only a couple dates. Those guys were not on the spectrum & had good social skills & also had stories about hooking up at parties & meeting women at bars/clubs. I think lots of people on the spectrum would have a very difficult time navigating that way.

On the topic of buzzkill, someone else (on a prior post on this thread) said we should obtain explicit consent (and then said "and if asking for explicit consent is a turn off for the partner, they're not worth having sex with anyway").

Asking for explicit consent is one of those ideas that sounds good on paper, but is impractical in actuality. "Can I have sex with you?" is, I imagine, a major turn off for a lot of women (even if they initially were interested in having sex with you). I say women because that's who I'm interested in; I have no idea what trying to sleep with a man entails.

On the topic of 2 strangers hooking up, it happens more often than you might think. For basically as long as the internet has existed, meeting partners online has been a thing (and in the current year, there are apps galore for hooking up).

Back to the explicit consent thing, I was chatting with this 46 year old woman on a hookup platform. I myself am in my 30s. Then she told me some guys even younger than me express interest in her (Then she explained why. It relates to the explicit consent thing). She said early 20s guys on the hookup platform told her that a lot of modern-day college-aged girls, even once the sex has already begun, make you get consent for each and every thing you do (which the guys found to be a total mood-killer). The 46 year old woman said she agreed that's a mood-killer. She said women from her generation have the attitude "Once you get me into bed, consent is implied. If you go too far, we'll let you know."

One last comment. Another example of something that sounds like a good idea on paper, but is impractical in actuality: Having a partner prove they really are of age (and I have a story on this topic).

Back when I was 22, a girl on a dating site (who said she was 18) wanted to meet up. I told her before we met up, I would need her to prove she really is 18. I essentially told her "I'm not accusing you of lying. I just need 100% proof to cover myself legally."

The girl went off on me, said "How dare you not trust me?!?!? I really am 18. But I refuse to prove it."

Yet another example of how trying to cover yourself legally can end up backfiring (because it comes across as a mood-killer)

Right. Those of us on the spectrum have a hard time navigating that way. That's why I had to dig back 8 years to come up with an example.

I never went to even one party in high school or college.

As a woman, I would consider it a turn-on if a guy I was dating wanted explicit consent.

People should not be having sex with someone if there's any question that they could be underage. It's better to be a potential mood-killer than a statutory rapist.

You're right; if there's any question the other party might be underage, it's best to 100% verify.

Needless to say, I refused to meet up with her. Yeah, I understand her feelings might have been hurt that I wouldn't take her word for it she was 18. But if she turned out to be below 18, I could have ended up behind bars. If her feelings are more important to her than my freedom, she wasn't worth meeting up with.

Did my instinct tell me she really was 18? Yeah. I even found her name on a list of recent (at the time) high school graduates in the town where she lived. Still, I wasn't taking any chances unless she could furnish official evidence of being 18.

Luckily, at this point (30s), I've reached the age where the women I'm interested in look old enough there's no question of whether they're legal; it's a given they're old enough.

"Can I have sex with you" isn't the right question. There doesn't even need to be a question, per se. My partner knew I had trauma from sexual assault. It became a topic of conversation, not a one-liner question.

Examples of the types of things my partner said (this is over the course of months -- actually it pretty much continued for our entire relationship because I had bad days.)

When you're ready to talk about your trauma I'm here for you. Let's take this slow. I've been reading about sex after trauma. Here's some articles and resources I found. Let me know how you feel about them, or what your thought are. I want to support you. I love you and I want to be with you but there's no pressure. You set the pace. I'll go to your doctor with you if you're comfortable. Tell me what to avoid, or what might help. Tell me if you want me to stop. It's OK if you change your mind. Let me know how you're feeling (after things happened). Tell me if there's anything I can do differently. How are you feeling about it today? I notice you pulled away a bit when ________. Do you want to talk about it?



When we finally became intimate (which was AMAZING because of all this trust ^), the conversation became -

I'm going to __________ and then __________. Is that OK? Let me know if you want more.



I absolutely LOVED this kind of talk. It made me feel very comfortable but it was also arousing because I knew what was going to happen and didn't have to worry about the unknown. I could imagine and anticipate. I'm mostly aroused by mental thoughts anyway, so this worked perfectly. I liked the power of knowing and talking and communicating. I like the way it made him assertive and confident. I knew I was safe with someone like that.

I understand that not everyone has this level of trauma, but you still don't need to say "Can I have sex with you?"
That's about as sexy as watching paint dry.

My girlfriend is very insecure about sex & doesn't like being direct. She often says lots of things that sound dirty but are sometimes meant as jokes or sometimes meant literally & not meant to be dirty when she says them but they are also occasionally hints. I cant tell if it's she's giving serious hints or not at the time & she also hates feeling pressured for anything. If I were to question her every time she would get annoyed & will shut down. I also don't like regularly getting rejected & feeling like I'm upsetting her so I play it safe & assume it's not meant as a hint but occasionally I'll make some kinda joke response. We almost never do anything sexual & we would probably do something sexual more than 2wice as often if she was more direct or didn't get upset & shut down due to feeling pressured.

Absolutely this. Especially because I'm not a person who has ever been comfortable discussing sex in any detail with most people.



There are probably better ways to phrase the question. Especially phrased that way it sounds almost transactional. "Would you like to have sex?" would be better - essentailly asking about the other person's desires rather than your own.

But if someone finds asking for the simplest of consent to a huge turnoff I would say that person has issues.



And it's 100% of the time a stupid idea.



If the person is a trauma victim or some other psychological hangup or maybe just for someone's first time, step-by-step consent is quite reasonable. However, I consider it the obligation of the person with the issues to express them.

For most people, I think consent to sex is sufficient. If you want to do something unusual, that should get an explicit okay (probably before sex starts). Otherwise, I agree that it's a "If you start going to far, I'll let you know."

In either case, it is the partner's responsibility to accept and comply when consent is withdrawn, even if unexpectedly.

Collectively as a society, we are very screwed up. We're bad at communication and often actively avoid it. Most of us don't want to speak honestly and directly, or be spoken to that way. We're so enticed by forbidden fruit. And society is so deeply screwed up by this unhealthy behavior that most people actively embrace this way of life.

After the end of my first marriage in 1988, I literally did not date for 25 years. Courtship with my second wife had some comic moments related to my lack of perception of her signals that this really was romantic, and not just two former work friends casually getting together.

As a male, I've always been very tender and unaggressive. I totally do not relate to other men talking about their conquests. When I was a teenager, my mom advised me to just be myself and do the things I love, and someone would notice me. Well, it took a long time, but even with all my social dysfunctionality, it did eventually happen.

During that whole 25 years I was always interested, but my special interests were mainly solitary pursuits, and I was extremely insecure about any prospect that a woman might be interested in me. I needed very strong evidence. Luckily, my 2nd wife was persistent enough to get through even my thick skull, although she was very coy in her own way too.