There's simply no other explanation...

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^I think it's almost like that here only because of media and some influences of Judeo-Christianity. There does seem to be this pressure that happiness relies upon having a husband or wife or girlfriend/boyfriend. I don't think age range is a big deal but yeah, inside one feels compelled that they must be a certain age or look a certain way in order to have a partner. Especially the age thing, I feel like I missed out on so much in such a short time.....

ToadOfSteel don't beat yourself up!

You're not that fat or anything!
but what I can see is that this shirt is too small, see how it's wrinkled? It's not supposed to be...
I don't know how important dis actually is but my mother and sister help my out with buying clothings, and it seems very important to women...

Then I'll see you in court...

All of the above AND
*DISCLAIMER* ultra shallow trivial female input about clothing
honestly, dressing differently may not change physical mass, but presents it in a more attractive form. Shirts (as in buttons up the front) will always look better than t-shirts, the cut and cloth doesn't cling over the stomach area. Buy based on fit, not what the size label reads(labels can be cut out anyway) Casual shirts, cotton, short or long sleeve. Also shorts/trousers with a better fabric or cut- only athletes look good in sportswear. And finally, the grooming thing- you don't have to go totally metrosexual, but a slight waft of nice aftershave, good haircut CLEAN NAILS etc show you take some pride in yourself and women DO notice...if nothing else, you will feel better presented.

Does this help? Or is it impertinant? I don't like to hear someone else so relentlessly down on themselves - I do it and it helps nothing

I keep hearing that, but to be honest it feels like nothing I do can work in that regard...


button-down shirts also tend to be a lot less comfortable and are hell to put on, especially if not lined up correctly.


I buy based on comfort and function... those are what matter to me the most...


that pair of shorts are actually quite comfortable, much moreso than denim or khaki, let alone the material in formalwear... I've generally found that the higher up in the "looks" hierarchy an article of clothing is, it becomes more uncomfortable, harder to put on, and expensive... it's almost as if looks is inversely proportional to comfort...


I do shower and brush my teeth every day... although being a chronic nailbiter doesn't help...


Well it's all good advice, but I have no idea how it's going to help someone like me out... if someone could invent a suit that I could wear and not feel like I have to stand at attention all the time just to make it not feel like crap, that would be great. Otherwise, the t-shirt and shorts (although I wear jeans in winter) routine is the easiest for me to deal with...

First off, Toad, I'm afraid you're bordering on body dysmorphic disorder types of ideations and thoughts. You're not horribly obese, if that picture is any indicator, and you don't even have a bad build. I saw a guy the other day at the airport who was about the same size and stature of you, according to your photo, and he let off an air of humour and confidence. I found him attractive. I even looked twice. His attitude made him that way, and I got all of that because of how he was holding himself. Granted, I'm sort of unusual amongst women in some places, but not that much so. The guy I'm talking about was flirting with a girl, best I could tell, who was also attractive.

My own brother is about your size, too, and not that long ago used to be something of a 'player,' attracting women because it gave him a confidence boost (he said). He's a weird guy, I might add, though horribly extraverted and good humoured. He also has had a cyst on his forehead for the longest time, and although he's self conscious about it, it doesn't seem to impede his ability to woo the ladies.

So, image is out.

"Unlovable". If you want to be realistic, than lets take a look at your wording, here. I'd never use this word for anything. It's superficial and holds no power. It means nothing. You might want to be more specific, because this is no answer to anything. I think in one internet-breath you spelled it out a lot better than that; "Doom and gloom". I'd smell it off of you ten miles away and run the other direction. All those positive things you listed are of no consequence when someone reeks of psychological problems. This is something you can improve, and which would help you greatly.

Furthermore, being an introvert hardly seems a problem anywhere I go. I make friends and there are many, many introverts out there. I'd say over half the people I meet are introverts, and prefer moments of quiet every day. I sat next to a woman on a plane a few days ago who was so introverted she seemed to become exhausted talking to me (I'm rather exuberant in my communication). Don't think society frowns on it -- it's a fact of life. Acting asocial directly, however, is not. I don't like that, either, and I'm an introvert. It generally means something is wrong, not that someone is introverted.

Also, being a nerd is trendy now. I have a tune by Alias that has a sample of a woman saying "They try too hard to be weird". It's pop culture now. And that doesn't necessarily mean you get the shaft if you're a real nerd, versus a pop-culture geek; I've found that my quirky nerdiness goes very far in my social life. One problem, though, is it can be taken as too much of a novelty. You have to balance it sometimes and let people know you're still human. Yeah, frustrating, I know.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- there is nothing else to hold you back except your attitude. However, the fact that no one's input on that matter seems to be getting through to you seems to me to be the biggest indicator of why you're not attracting anyone. Like I said, I would smell it ten miles away. I have done, actually, with other men. For instance, my boyfriend's dad has what I would consider a very potentially attractive personality (sounds gross--damn it, I'm not interested like that), but he's lonely, single and possibly doomed because of his own deeply insecure, depressed, circular, self-defeatist lack of charm.

This is seriously depressive, distorted thinking you're presenting, based on what I've seen of you. Many other people do live a fantasy life, or at least have fantasy aspirations, but there are still many that don't. Your thinking is probably just as distorted as that of anyone going the opposite direction from you. Saying you're "unlovable" is a huge red flag of distorted perception, since it in itself is a superficial word. What I'm trying to say is, this is the opposite of 'happy' fantasy, it's a fantasy of being doomed.

I speak from experience.
If you project that, you can't blame women for not getting involved. Not only have I been seriously, profoundly depressed, due to the fact that I suffer from very acute PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder), but my boyfriend is also a total wreck of problems relating to fantasy and distorted thinking, thanks to his parents' ineptitude raising him.

Maybe you have a bad background, too. Such distortions and fantasy almost always seem to the compensatory result of bad experiences, as a way to escape. That, of course, also leads to self defeating behaviour. It's difficult, or sometimes impossible (in the case of personality disorders), to break this cycle of conditioned psychology, but it can still be improved if you're aware of the problem.

I personally suggest if you can't help yourself see these things that you get someone who has experience to talk to you, even if it's just a social worker. There are good people out there with good insight who can help you to at least recognize your issues, and thus bypass all the neurotic guesswork. Self defeat may get in the way of true help, so keep an eye out as much as you can for distorted, negative thinking. You want answers, they're there, but not in a mental world of self loathing.

I'd like to close this with a great big-booty bass punk electronic song of great pertinence, Self Loathing Rulz.

I want to thank myself for being so hard on myself.
There's no one else could know how much I really must improve.
I see my faults come through in every aspect of my life.
I just see the downside of every single thing I do.

But when you're down this low,
No one can make you feel worse.
Yeah, when you hate yourself,
Nobody can touch you.
Yeah, when you're down this low,
The haters haven't got you.
I guess that's why, in a way,
I say self loathing rules...

TOS ~ If jeans/T-shirt or shorts/T's is what you feel comfortable in, then that is exactly what you should be wearing. If you try to be something/someone that you are not, you're not going to feel good about yourself. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wearing those kinds of clothes. I'm a jeans/tshirt kinda person myself.

I'm 275 pounds (125kg) and 5'11" (about 180cm), which evaluates to a bmi of 38. That's just shy of morbidly obese (although it's down from 43, so progress has been made)... However, as I said in the OP and you also said in that post, weight isn't a deciding factor in this issue, so the point is moot. Anyway, moving on...


How is it superficial? "Unlovable" is the first term I've come across that holds as an explanation as to why I can't find love... all other rationale are disproven at one point or another. I know a guy twice as fat as I am that is happily married (for a number of years, with no sign of breaking up in the forseeable future), I know a semi-nerd (mostly just a videogamer though) just about as fat as I am who found a girlfriend recently, and even a fellow IT nerd who never spoke to others unless spoken to first also found love...

Without any of those qualities capable of explaining why I am still alone, the only other quality I could find is that of "unlovable", since it is the only one I can find that applies to the issue and hasn't been disproven...


The "doom and gloom" is derived from the "unlovable"...


Like I said, I've ruled out those two excuses...


I was incredibly confident 7 years ago, if a bit naive, and that only served to amplify the rejection's pain, since the concept of failure wasn't even considered...


How is it distorted perception? Given the effect that I cannot attract even any interest from women (the only "attraction" I've ever experienced was from women trying to use my brainpower to pass biology class in high school), and the failure of any other negative qualities to explain the effect (whether they are actually negative or just perceived by society to be negative), "unlovable" remains the only explanation to date that is not disproven...


As do I...


And by that statement, you've just disproven your own hypothesis that "distorted thinking" can prevent love... even assuming that your statement that I am such a "distorted" thinker is correct...


I did once live in a fantasy... 7 years ago... the rejection was painful, sure, but it served to bring me back down to earth, as it were... and now I spend my time looking for the reason behind why that and subsequent rejections happened... Anyway, the first step to solving a problem in troubleshooting is finding the source of the problem. I spent years drifting from one possible cause to another... fat, nerdy, introvert, borderline psychotic, the list goes on... but none of those served as adequate explanations and therefore could not be the root cause. Unlovable is the first time I have been able to explain it without the explanation being proven wrong in some fashion...

Toad, I am writing this post and I know that you're going to ignore me here (I have the impression that you have something personal against me),but at least read this and pretend that you're ignoring me.

There's no single reason called "Unlovable" , being Unlovable by other is a consequence of a single or many negative traits , probably it's a combo of many things , in personality and in looks. You must break them down one by one to know what are the most trait that make you unlovable.

Your weight: Don't fool yourself , you are borderline obese and the majority of girls dislike obesity in guys. Now I know that you know a friend who is obese yet he has a gf bla bla bla but you can base a rule on an exception , do you really think that your obese friend never hard difficulties because of his weight? I can hardly believe that. Your friend is either so lucky or he made efforts to compensate his weight.

However , it's highly recommended to keep the good job in decreasing your weight, not for the girls, but for your health. You still so young and the more you grow up the more your metabolism become slower , it's better to solve this issue gradually but start it early and remember :don't ever give up.


Nerdy/geeky: I work in a company of programmings, it's full of typical nerdy and geeky guys, most of them are in relationship. So you're right in this one , nerdy/geeky is not a general turn off , maybe only to some girls but in general it's not.



Your routine/lifestyle: I said that before , this one is a killer. One of the reasons why I remain single is because I am stuck to a routine, I don't have a car, I have a license yet I didn't drive for ages. I go by taxi from home to work and home to work. During weekend, I occasionally go out with my friends (who are my older brother's best friends) as a "guys group" to movie or to mall or to restaurant , or we meet in someone's home for Xbox 360 challenges. So most of our activities doesn't involve meeting new people , hence new girls in our life, we don't like go to parties or night clubs. I have also of friends who were former college colleagues, those I see only once per month in some meeting.
I rarely meet new girls in life, and I very rarely ask one of them, I was used to do that once or twice per year , then how the hell am I supposed to be in relationship? even if I am hot I would have little chance with such routine , let alone if I am not hot.

I am not changing my lifestyle because I honestly not seeking a partner anymore, I might post in this forum a lot but I am just doing for fun. The L&D forum is a passing time game to me and it's not anymore a place where I seek love advices in order to apply them

You've described in your post your lifestyle many times, your routine seems to revolves around few places : home/church/college. You seem have very few friends but that's not the main problem. Your problem that your lifestyle ....your routine doesn't provide you to meet new people. I don't know what advice I can give you since I myself didn't know how to change my routine, but I just want to let you know that it's a major that you should consider in your calculations.

Yeah yeah,I know that you know a third party with a strict lifestyle too yet he got a girlfriend, f*****g s**t toad, you must forget about such exceptions in third parties , I am sure that most aspies with such limited routines have this problem. There's also the luck factor that you also should consider.


Your clothes: I am not sure if that was just your PJ, but if those are your casual clothes then it's better to pick more stylish clothes.

Your aspiness: This one can't be resolved, you are what you are after all. Practicing on your social skills might help a bit.

I have observed similar things in subcultures in the States; in the Mormon religious, for example, being an unmarried woman at 22 or an unwed male at 25 is near approaching a pariah status where either one is ostracized from their church and social events or subsequently set up with every possible partner in order to get married as quickly as possible. As I do not have a religious environment that I am a part of, this is something relatively unfamiliar to me personally... but I can only imagine the duress that such stress would place on a person. As I said in another thread, having an agenda has never helped me in my relationships, and have rarely if ever seen it function well for others. Whether that is sex, marriage, children, financial support, what-have-you, the pressure creates an artificial reality that those involved will themselves to belive in.

ToS... based on your picture, you're somewhat overweight, although I think you perceive your appearance more critically than those around you do. You have already succeeded in losing weight, and you have the opportunity to continue to lose more. Is it easy? No. Is it consistent? Not really, to be honest. Sometimes you lose more than you think, more often you lose less and keep at it. Changing one's attire is a challenge - I'm a creature of comfort, not fashion - but there are things one can do to alter the affect. Button-down shirts can be good even unbuttoned, and it is more a matter of what you feel good in than anything, in my opinion. Strangely enough... I agree with LPP on this point - your routine is a limiting factor. There is the old quote, that to do the same thing over and over again without change, and expecting a different result, is a definition of insanity. In order for things to change, they must change - you must change... or you'll continue to repeat the same pattern.


M.

I think I did a fairly ok job explaining why it's superficial. Again, it's just a word that holds no power and doesn't explain anything at all. You could use it in context with explain what's so unlovable, but it in itself is not an answer.



This does not compute. True confidence is trust in oneself and should take rejection into consideration, not as a serious blow to the ego. That wouldn't be actual confidence, but possibly naive narcissism or some other such issue.



No matter what, it's something about your behaviour. Given the previous quote, it doesn't sound like you've ever been confident, for starters. And when someone lacks trust in themselves, they can be all sorts of trouble. Some women go for it, some don't. And if those guys you keep mentioning have that issue, they were probably just in the right place at the right time, and if they have issues, they're probably making their girlfriends very miserable. Or maybe they treat them really well, and do have a smidgen of confidence, or good communication, or are working hard to improve. Who knows? But they're not you, despite their similarities, and you could be doing something even mildly different to them that is making all the difference and you just can't see it, but the women can.

But 'unlovable' doesn't cover anything at all. It could be that your extreme self focus is a total killer (it would be for me, the more I see of you on here), or your inability to handle criticism, or your depression, or your acting very rude and impenetrable, all of which give off a huge, red, blinking sign that says, "I have a lot of baggage to drop at your doorstep".

Does this make sense?

For instance, I see a lot of people helping you, or trying to help you, on here, and you are generally not receptive, choosing instead to stick with your own perception of the issue and not truly consider what is being said. Sometimes it may not apply, but sometimes it may. But I personally see you ignoring a lot of good stuff on here to opt for what looks like self pity. From a very possibly soon-to-be-single woman's standpoint, that's horrifically unattractive. That, coupled with your obvious lack of self esteem, there's no surprise women are using you as a calculator (though I personally refrain from that sort of thing, as a woman).



You mean because he's my boyfriend? Perhaps I should have added that it's been horrible, and I feel more [unwanted] resentment toward him now than anything, and am likely going to break up with him very soon. I'm terrified he's going to be alone the rest of his life, and about a year ago I had a dream where I saw him (though I didn't know that at first) in his 50s, sitting alone on the edge of a bed in a hospital with empty, grey walls and no light. Like his parents, it's very possible his distorted thinking and other personality issues are going to leave him emotionally destitute. When someone gets into this rut, they need someone capable of helping them out.



And this is definitely distorted, in my eyes. You said previously you were confident, and then in the next line said you were living a fantasy. There is such thing as false confidence, but true confidence is something that is much more sensible and humble, rather than outright fantastical. It just sounds like you're becoming more and more disordered as you go, but no one can touch you or make you see anything. When you have mental issues caused by anything, the more severe they get, the more self-introspection becomes distorted and useless, and the ability to see yourself with any perspective other than that which is twisted becomes impossible. All that exists is your own mind and its confined ideations.

Of course, you don't have to listen to me, and you likely won't, but I wouldn't be replying if I weren't trying to help -- something which you seem unable to see. For that fact, I won't reply again. Good luck with your search.

Well I lost about 25 pounds in one month last July, and pretty much kept it off since then, but haven't been able to lose any more... regardless of what I try...


To which I ask only one question: how?

The only places I could meet women that are both single and in the market, so to speak, are nightclubs. Not only are such places not the places I want to be at (I don't drink or dance), but the women there wouldn't be the types I would want to be with. Others would suggest the library, but I've found that women that live in a library are not usually looking for a partner at that particular time. On top of that, there's nowhere I could go with any women my age at all that also has the supportive social structure that my church offers, and since I can't just abandon the only people in existence that actually care about what I think, there's just no time to go find anywhere else...

TOS, I think I have an idea here. Just get on a dating site, set up a profile (try to get on a better site that will help match you), but also most importantly try to come up with a profile that takes your positives and makes you sound like your alive and interesting rather than glum. The other part, its hard but I think it has to be done, is also inwardly taking that stance - to make something of what you life and take the hard road of making yourself enjoy your life for what it is just by adapting ways of thinking that are both realistic and compassionate, that and keep striving for things that you want in life and out of yourself (ambition is a huge positive).

Dating is truthfully a pained excercise, very many are excruciating, very many people go home feeling a bit rattled and sympathetic with the other person for trying but otherwise trying to laugh the meeting off. Still, if you can find the adjustment to where you can let a woman know that you'd like to go out, that you don't have the need but your trying just to test the waters, truthfully its a very weird paradigm and one that I'm still both getting used to and trying to find a sense of myself withing, still it seems like for us the only way is to try - we aren't going to magnetize anything.

And lastly, what' been most painful for me to realize but I've been chasing this pill with a lot of hot chocolate and happy thoughts - your right on the positive and negative traits, your no better or worse than any other guy out there, only difference is you have AS and they don't. Doesn't make you a social loser, that seems to have almost nothing to do with it (or your worth for that matter) compared to the fact that relationship infatuation is both very instinctive and very much governed by how the subconscious mind picks up body language. We can help what we think, we can help how we adapt and adjust to reality in terms of attitude, we can help our ability to read other people in some cases, we can help our overtures of body language, but the one thing I think is almost impossible for us to do and the one thing that makes people with AS almost untouchable is all the calculus that goes into nonverbal signals that we're supposed to give off; that much is like being in a wheel chair - if you can't walk you can't walk, its all physical at that point and many of us are nonverbally paraplegic or even quadriplegic in some cases.

Good news is, even with that much of the deck stacked against us and as irrelevant the quality of our personalities may be in this - its inevitable that if you keep trying to get yourself out there and meet people something positive will come of it.

Weight loss is a tricky thing; my own was filled with a lot of lurches and plateaus... I had to keep changing my approach, adding foods and taking out others, finding ways to stay constantly active instead of making time to exercise, adjusting to the weather and my health, and facing my depression. I think for me that was a huge part of it, facing the depression and its' contribution, in making the progress I did over time. If you want to talk diet and approach sometime, feel free to contact me via PM.

How? It's a reasonable question, but single people don't only go from home to the night club and back. Have you considered different areas of work? Volunteering for a group to clean a road, hike a trail, assist a class, try something different? Joining another choir so you might meet different people? If it is important to you, then you will make the time... what you choose to do with your time indicates what is truly important to you. When everything you tell yourself is negative, when you make no allowance for things to change or that you are better than you believe, then even when the sun peeks out from the rain... you'll be looking down and won't see it.


M.

I'm starting to feel like Toad except for the weight issue.

Toad, at least you've been honest enough to bring personal issues you've had in your life onto this forum where most people make it look as if there should be no reason why they're single.

I too suffer some of the issues you've shared.

Anyway, I would really look at some of the useful feedback here. I think you need to start liking yourself before liking anyone else. You can't just rely on women or people to make you happy. That's at least one thing I've been learning through my experience that the more I'm comfortable about myself the less I become antisocial.

Well I don't want to say too much, this is your forum. Albeit the truth, I do think you should lose some weight not for vanity purposes but for health reasons and sometimes your health can affect you mentally....most people don't even think about that part in having a healthy lifestyle.

I love to walk around the lake because I feel so much better through out the day and less anxious when faced with people....Anyone just something to think about.

I do think you're one of the most honest people in this board even though I do think your personal perceptions are a bit off. You're one of the few members here I can relate to from a female perspective.

being down on yourself and depressed is a big turn off. so if you want people to like you should be 1) happy, smiling, positive thinking 2) secure

to be a more secure person, i noticed that people who have connections to family, God, to something that matters to them, feel a lot more secure.

loneliness takes a big toll on your happiness. what makes you less lonely? for me it's exercise and being around people or working with others together. that is why i recommend you join a group. any group. use meetup.com - there are plenty of groups in your area.