would you like to have amazing success with women?

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alex's advice is good
be happy without a gf - being down on yourself is a turn off
stop caring if she likes you - all relationships end in divorce
stop over analyzing - logic will never replace intuition

just don't over do it.

How can there be many more single men than single women in general? I find that hard to believe. There are, so I've read, slightly more women in the 30-40 range than men. There aren't more out lesbians than gay men (though there may be slightly more lesbian couples than gay couples, I don't see how it would affect the figures so dramatically), and for every woman in a heterosexual relationship there is also a man in a heterosexual relationship.

The real crucial figure would be how many single people there are compared to people in relationships. Also, if all of your social circles are male-dominated, the chances of meeting an interesting single woman through those are relatively small.

It also matters how many women and men are basically not in dating contention at all. As in not wanted in a relationship by anyone. I'd imagine there are more men in this category. Due to the nature of men that is...

I like your story b9, it gives a strange comfort. That if you do interesting things, and the women are curious(and perhaps desperate) enough, you'll be found attractive. Maybe I should start eating at taverns more often...

Everything I've wanted to say on the matter, all rolled up nicely into one sentence...


I can confirm this... women that seem outwardly attractive can be complete jerks on the inside, while the "not-so-attractive" are actually much more attractive once you get to know them... and I mean that literally, as once I get to know a woman, if she's nice, her "rating", as it were, can vary by as much as 5 points (out of 10)... Between that and the fact that the former "jerk" group tends to be incredibly manipulative, using sex to get what they want out of men, it's easy to see why I subconsciously burned out my ability to be attracted solely on physical parameters...

I don't imagine that at all. If men are chosen on how they act and women are chosen on how they look, then men in general have much more leeway than women who haven't been blessed with good looks.

One other figure where single men might be in trouble would be the amount of middle-aged women who have given up on relationships. Statistics show that on the whole, single women are happier than married women and married men are happier than single men. There may be more women who have found that they would rather live their lives on their own, and rule out relationships entirely.

The most frustrating thing about relationships is that I feel like I'm doing more or less everything right, and have been for years, but I've only gotten one woman's number (with no follow-up) in that space of time. Alex's advice in this thread so far has been fine, nothing I haven't already processed, though I haven't always agreed with him so it'll be interesting to see what else he says.

I can't believe that there is a disparity of 400,000 between single males and single females between 30-40 in the U.K. I don't have time to research but I would bet that the ratio is similar in the U.S.A. across all age lines. To analyze that statistic would bring up the old reference of how female wolves only mate with the strongest male wolves, and the weaker male wolves are left without a partner. That means that 25% of men will be left without a partner. It is a cruel game of musical chairs. For people at the bottom of the list in income/social skills(the category into most AS men fall.) The single women will not settle for us until the more promising available partners are exhausted.

It seems like if you are competing with an NT guy for a girl, the NT guy will be able to use his superior social powers and savvy too outwit you to steal your prize. This has happened to me a number of times; A few times when I was in the Army. There were female soldiers I knew who I was attracted to and I made some overtures towards friendship and dating. Because of my undiagnosed AS, they never regarded me as anything more than a borderline friend, but the NT soldiers were able to swoop in and take them out on dates and become their boyfriend. They could present themselves as convincing boyfriend material in a way that I didn't/don't know how. To rub salt in the wound, it seemed like they would flirt successfully with them by being the biggest jerks and @$$holes possible and wooing with the "bad boy" mentality. I tried to be as nice as possible but it got me nowhere(obviously, you can't take someone seriously who licks your boots.) Anyway, that was a situation where the male to female ratio was overwhelmingly lopsidedly male, and dominant male at that, so I had no chance of ever dating a girl in that environment. I would simply be hopelessly outclassed by Alpha males with tremendous dating talent and aptitiude.

It seems, by the absolute logic above, that most girls won't even begin to consider the "untouchable" tier of guys until all possibilities to bag a rich/gregarious/popular NT guy are exhausted. Only in desperation will they turn to someone like me. I know of course that the whole dating game defies any real logic and my guesses are as good as the next. From personal experience, I know how it feels to be rejected in favor of a more socially competent man. It only seems like once all of the suave, socially proficient males are out of the picture do I have any chance. Side by side with a normie, I am visually and hopelessly outclassed.

Its like Major League Baseball: The select group of talented players will actually get to play in the big leagues. Guys who have some talent get to play in the minors. Everyone else just gets to watch on TV. However, if all the guys who can play baseball are "eliminated" or killed off, than I would be able to play in the big-leagues by default. The more proficient guys are going to monopolize opportunites and date the "higher-league" girls. It is your choice if you want leftovers or fret away in vain to try and get to a higher tier. The "Major League" guys who have phenomenal social-skills and a dynamic life will get the chociest females. Guys who are doing decently at various levels of life(thriving in a way) with some uniqueness will interact with a range of females. Different proficiencies of different skill sets will attract a range of girls throught the "minor leagues." It is when you fall into that bottom 25% that you fall out of the game and out of the "minor leagues" all together. It is the ladder theory on a large scale. As long as you remain in the "untouchable" caste of men for whom there is no partner due to the gender gap, all you can do is watch others date.

And another thing:

Even if you do meet a girl and get close to her, you still wind up having to compete with her off-again, on-again NT @$$hole boyfriend. This demi-boyfriend's name is always "Jason" or "Scott" and he is typically sort of a bad-boy drifter punk who wears his ball-cap backwards and treats her like dirt but keeps her interested in him by messing with her head. You always have to outplay this guy in order to win her heart. Still, this individual is always a most unwelcome presence who serves to prevent you from dating your crush. She always says, "Well, Jason and I have been talking about getting back together."

And you say to yourself, "What the hell, you have been together with him on three separate occasions and every time it ends in disaster. What do you see in this guy?"

"Well," she says, "I really wan't to make it work with him."

(And if all else fails, then I'll settle for you. Sorry.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3991981.stm

It would be really interesting to get full stat results, I've never found them yet. It may seem academic (and very Aspie), but to me it seems unjust to point the fiinger of blame at single individuals when the cause may be in the system, not the individual.



Well, the figures never seem to add up in these media 'reports'. I agree in that articles often state the reverse of the last one, and this passes without any comment!


Well, talking of figures "not adding up", for decades males have been (according to the stats) having affairs without a female actually present... Over time, though, the female rate of affairs is increasing (apparently) to match the male rate. So in that case can we assume that females were having affairs all along, but only now is it more acceptable to admit it? It does show how people distort the reality to be what they believe socially acceptable. Maybe some of the 'attacheds' are actually single but hiding it through shame?


I'm in the same boat. People even tell me that they "just can't understand why all those middle aged divorcees aren't fighting over a prize such as myself". However, when I ask them if they actually know a midde aged divorcee looking for someone, they admit they don't.

I do wonder how much effort one is supposed to put into 'hunting' a relationship. I suspect that 'normal' people put in a lot more than they admit, like it becomes the underlying principle behind everything they do and say, 24/7.

I recently read that based on the entire genetic mix of the world population, we are descending from around 80% of females yet only 40% of males that ever walked the earth. In other words, 60% of males who ever existed, are *not* represented in our current species. They did not succesfully procreate. However for females, it's only 20%. This shows how dispensable male humans are when compared to females.

The bar is higher for males and that's probably exactly how it's supposed to be. Why "dating" guides for men consist of 100's of pages detailing the complete personality and physical restructuring you'll have to undergo before a girl will even glance at you. Whereas women just go and get a new hairstyle.

The answer is to abolish monogamy. "The more the merrier..""

Last edited by ManErg on 12 May 2009, 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Does that take into account that more males than females die at a younger age? (most often due to some form of recklessness or another...)

I can't find the link right now, but I'm sure that was mentioned as significant. Men taking risks to impress females and going to war perhaps driven by the lack of available partners in their own 'tribe/nation'.

I have found the article that talk about these stats, they are most likely to be true:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3991981.stm

In fact, I believe this is the case everywhere and we can estimate it ourselves with our surrounding: I personally don't know an single girl (in real life) within the 20-30 age range whether she's pretty or ugly or scary yet I know few (about 1/4) single guys within the same age range.


How this can be possible? There are several reasons:

1- The ladies men: I personally know at least 3 men at work who are successfully having sexual relations with several girls at a time and I witnessed proofs for that (they might brag a bit but it's true), let's say they are about hmmm .. 3 men out of 32 (nb of males at work) that makes them about 9% and I am sure there's more since I can't know the sexual life of every guy there. if let's say 9% of men are dating more than 1 girl then that would cause a difference.

2- Women prefer older men: Many women in the 20-30 age range would date men over 40s for obvious evolutionary advantageous reasons.

3- Women in general remain single for shorter time in the "inter-relationships' period : Usually people don't notice about much about this, but usually the average guy (and I bold average guy) won't be able to re-enter a new relationship so fast after a failed one even if he's actively seeking, he might remain single for years before that happens again.
What a fascinating fact I noticed about girls , that they get a new bf within weeks after the previous broken-up relationship. I don't recall any girl who remained single for years before entering a new relationship. What I noticed too about every taken averagely-attractive girl I know closely have fan guys who are trying to approaching her , so if their current relation fails then she can quickly pick the best back-up guy.

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 12 May 2009, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

b9, your post is amazing, and one that I really think everyone should read. I wish they would make it a sticky.

So many principles at work, the main one being that women want a challenge. You were a challenge, at some point, the girls realized, the ultimate one. Unfortunately for them, they could never seal the deal. They thought you were playing it cool, playing hard to get, but nope, you just weren't interested.

Your friend, on the other hand, is no challenge at all. He shows his cards (if life and love were poker) to everyone and anyone. He's not discriminating, and is actually a bother. He doesn't even wait for them to show their personality -- he pretty much takes them at face value, and women get pretty tired of that really quickly.

I think that there are a lot of guys like your friend, including me at different points in my life. Too eager, too easily sold, too available, and too nice (but with an ulterior motive).

Btw, this may be a bit gross, but your friend might want to consider some near-female "alternatives" (like t4m, many of whom are prettier than real women, and much hornier) on Craiglist just to get his sexual tension out. Once he starts getting laid regularly, I think the pressure will be off, and he'll play it cool (he should just be sure to be safe). It's the same reason why so many of us have long droughts, and then as soon as we land a girl, everyone else suddenly gets interested, even those who don't know about the GF.

Brusilov,

I can't help but notice that you are 23. I've noticed that a lot of the most negative, "life is set and I'm going to lose out" feedback comes from guys in that age range. It's a natural thing to do -- you're extrapolating out from your experiences to this point.

The problem is that women in their later 20s and 30s and beyond are a much different animal than the fickle creatures they were in their teens and in college. I think you'll see that a lot of the guys you perceive to be the "winners" and alpha males flame out as they hit career failure, drug and alcohol addiction, or fail to adjust to what women in their late 20s and early 30s really want -- a guy they can count on and raise children with who has a decent job. Those same "bad boys" in fact often end up being losers, in jail, rehab, or sterile from STD's.

I say this not to be patronizing, but just as a "I've been there" comment to you that I remember being just as negative and pessimistic at an age very close to yours, thinking it was all futile and hopeless, and BAM, everything turned around. You meet the right person, you get out of the negative attitude, you realize that not all women are alike, and that even with poor social skills or a lack of desire to go out and party all the time, there are plenty of women that would love a guy who likes to stay home with her, not out drinking and carousing all the time, and who shares the same interests.

The figures you quote are significant, but let's look at them realistically. Yep, it's possible that as many as 1 in 4 guys might not find a mate, but I suspect there's some error in those numbers, or things that aren't being accounted for. For instance, how many out of that pool are chronically unemployed? How many are drug addicts? How many are insane or mentally ret*d? How many are gay?

Until you say different, I'm going to assume that you are a literate, average-looking guy with all of his limbs, eyes, senses intact, with average intelligence or better, with decent job prospects if you apply yourself in any normal way. Right there, you're beating the crap out of the 1 in 4. You're lapping them and not even having to try.

The 1 in 4 is really the bottom of the barrel. If you're the bottom of the barrel, yep, it sucks to be you, but if that is you, you've got bigger problems than not having a woman, like getting a job or fighting off schizophrenia.

You're a young man, just coming into your own -- don't sink your ship before it leaves the harbor. You've got your whole life to nail young (and old) girls and have fun. Just go out and find it, and don't worry about the other stuff so much.

.



I believe, and I might be mistaken, that only the gullible would believe 100% of things you are saying here, OR most likely you are unaware of many unmentioned details here.

Let's be realistic for bit. How do they say it in American way? "oh C'MON!", yes that's it, C'MON!!"

For example, I find it hard to passively believe you that stranger girls come to you and start to open a conversation with you just because they're curious of what you're writing/reading/doing or because of your magical briefcase and its stuff inside. People always tend to not mind what others are doing in public UNLESS if they are interested in them.

What's actually happening that these girls find your appearances attractive (maybe your looks, maybe your posture ..I don't know , i never saw pics of you) and they seek for any excuse to open a conversations with you.

So they didn't initiate conversation because they are really curious to know what you're writing but because they found your writing or the thing you're searching for in briefcase as a portal to a conversation.

When I was at university and school, I knew few geeky guys who are silent like you , indifferent like you , not so_crazy_about_girls like you and they're always doing something in public like reading a book , or working on laptop or writing something...etc yet I never witnessed stranger girls came out of the blue asking them what they're doing. Surely, being musician helps but I don't think it's because of that they opened a convo with you because none of them knew that you were a 'musician' before talking to you.

If that "strategy" works then I would have been approached by zillions of girls in public so far haha , but it's not at all the case.

I knew 1 non-geeky very good-looking guy , and I witnessed how so many female strangers would try to find any excuse to open a conversation with him , I witnessed one who asked him about his cellphone and the conversation started.

As for you friend, he is obviously screwing it out because of his creepy/pushy attitude.

No offense b9, but I think your interpretation about your personal story is totally illogical.

Last edited by LePetitPrince on 12 May 2009, 12:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.