Question for the Aspie males that want girlfriends.

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i made an appointment to see a therapist on wednesday

I think its very foolish for people expecting to find someone who will love them for what they are.

Of course - this is the ultimate goal - but unless you want to be doomed in a destiny of loneliness - you should not live by it.

Toad - you need to fix your attitude about trying to find a woman who will love you at your worst. Off the bat, this will never happen. You want to attract someone at your best, get to know them, and they will grow to love you at your worst. It may seem unfair, but people just are NOT attracted to people at their worst.

When I am at my worst, I would not expect anyone to love me - at all.

Sitting on your worst and expecting to find someone will never ever work. How is it fair on them, even if it does? Don't you want to show off your best and show people the great person you can be as opposed to some guy at his worst with no personal motivation of self improvement or goals?

that brings up the "how long can you project an image" problem then. If I play at my best at the start, a woman would immediately leave me the moment i wasn't at my best.

It's stressful trying to pretend to be someone you really aren't, right? But you don't need to, just try to be yourself. It's not as if you only had negative traits and show only your worst side all the time, right? Why not list any good qualities you have and try to emphasize them?

I totally agree with this.

How do you figure?

She explained why Tim.

you can always try male prostitution, i have no complaints, except the fact it ruined me from ever having a meaningful relationship with a woman, but i got a nice house and flat screen tvs out of it so it balances out

No, it doesn't.

I am not telling you to pretend to be someone else.

I am telling you to help yourself truly be a better person. A person that is all you and only you. This is not a case of quickly putting on a false act to attract someone, its a case of long term self improvement to reach your personal best, which you are not trying to do, as you expect a woman to come along and like you as you are, which I'm sorry to say, will be less effective than getting a woman initially interested in you when you reach your personal best. Yeah, reaching your personal best wont happen overnight, but can't you at least start?

If someone comes along who likes you for what you are while you're working on this its just an added bonus.



Because people aren't just going to like someone when they have unattractive traits when they can get others without those. Yeah there might be a very very minimal amount of people in the world that will just accept someone for what they are off the bat but good luck to anyone ever finding those. See my reply to toad above about working on improving yourself.

I don't understand why this has to be re-iterated so much. Self-improvement continues to be the proscribed solution, and has nothing to do with 'being something you're not.' If you see the two as linked, please describe how so we can better understand your standpoint?

To his credit, it seems he has: He scheduled an appointment! I'm super glad for ya, Toad.

Actually, I think it's actively attractive. That kind of motivation, goal-setting, and personal honesty is at least somewhat indicative of a person's character. And it's promising to see.

I agree with this if it also includes identifying your weak points, and working on them. Being yourself does not require being complacent.

Well, for one, what we're describing is not just our views; In general it is broadly proscribed tactics and strategies for raising one's self-esteem. But we also are suggesting a viewpoint that allows one to see the pattern that exists between some particular behaviors and the negative consequences which so many guys end up unhappy with, and vexed by. In my case, this information has worked well, and much of it I've seen work to help others become happier also.

Furthermore, by posting in this sub-forum and expressing frustration, people are asking for help, perspectives, and looking for others to correlate their experiences. To not express 'our views' would be to ignore the point of this sub-forum. And by expressing those views, from what I've read in various threads, a number of people have been helped to move forward with a better sense of clarity. So in short, many people find views on this board helpful.
Or are you suggesting that it's a few particular views that aren't helpful?

Now, that's a real good point. However, there hasn't been a total lack of detail - There's been a number of smaller steps illustrated(although, true, at a smaller rate than big-picture illustrations). The problem lies in the path of the discussion; Many of the details were argued against, or an entire premise thrown out, leading to a defensive back-and-forth that got away from the directly useful stuff. Unfortunately, it's difficult or futile to outline good details(which takes hefty word count) when the premise appears to be dismissed. I hope you'll understand....

I guess I understand why you'd say that, however I have more faith in his ability than that. And I'm certain that the strategy, in general, works because it did for me. Difficult at first, but it got working. Of course, that doesn't mean it will work for him, but I have faith that he can handle it, from the clues I've seen about his personality and capacity so far. Which isn't much to guide by, admittedly.

Hehe, well, this was kinda the 'given' of the discussion. I know a thing or two about fearful avoidance myself. But this begs the question, what out there can help the people stuck in this loop? I can think of a few tactics, which we employ here, but apparently you think there is a better tactic....?
Or are you suggesting that we should not even attempt to help?

What if there's something that can be done to assist your interest which your are not aware of, but others are? That would be the case here. Unless you can effectively argue that our suggested strategies are not conducive to achieving the overarching goal? I think you'll have trouble on that one, though.
By implying that we support these ideas simply because it's what we believe, you are not giving us enough intellectual credit. Indeed, from what I've come to understand, this board is rather full of very smart, capable, aware, and objective people. Maybe your objectivity(which I, for one, appreciate) outdoes many others, but it does not lessen how objective the rest of us actually are.

So... all that said... If you've got some specific thoughts or ideas to help on this subject, lay 'em out. .... And criticisms are okay too, I guess.

Question!: Who in this thread seems to want to control others?

I don't want to control others, I want to see the likes of Toad and Tim Tex help themselves, become happier, and then the rest of us will no longer need to put up with their repetitive threads.

They are free to do what they want.

I can tell them what I think they should or need to do. At the end of the day Its all down to them. Pardon me for coming across as controlling, but when you've put up with years of threads from the same people who won't help themselves, then maybe you will see why I am desperate to shake some sense into them.

When "self-improvement" is even partially defined as: learning how to make small talk, adopting onerous and uncomfortable hygeine habits, learning how to be phony/smooth/charming/liar, etc. it is VERY much the art of being something you're not. A lot of people on this forum do not consider it "self-improvement" to knuckle under to popular opinion and begin slathering aluminum zirconium pentahydrex in their armpits every day for the purpose of thwarting the sweat glands that exist there. A lot of us do not consider it "self-improvement" to learn how to lie to women for the purpose of getting more dates than telling the truth would. A lot of us do not consider it "self-improvement" to torture ourselves with the learning of artificial behaviors outside our comfort zone.
The lonely-guy conflict arises when we feel we are good people the way we are, but do poorly finding an appreciative mate, while observing men with qualities we do not consider desirable far outperforming us in the mating marketplace. We are left with the choice of being proud of who we are, and alone, or learning these odious artificial behaviors (projecting an image) and improving our short-term results. Self-improvement is not relevant to this issue. I did plenty of that during my decades as a virgin, and it had no effect on my search for a girlfriend.

As for hale-bopp: if you don't like the repetitive threads on this subject, you don't have to participate. The lonely guys are here commiserating, and we can be a stubborn and gloomy crew sometimes, so you might save yourself the frustration.

Very true. If you can identify where those behaviors were suggested in this thread, then they deserve rescinding. Fortunately, I can't recall anyone suggesting any of that... Except for having good hygeine, which might not include chemicals in your armpits, if you prefer. I got no issue with that pref, the way you describe it.

Now, here's where it gets fuzzy. As a stereotype, we with AS have a hard time fitting in socially. We don't pick up on the patterns and cues everyone else is running in. Often, we don't act according to the expectations others tend to have in certain social situations. It puts us at a disadvantage, and that's a real shame since it leads to unfavorable or inaccurate prejudgment. To fight against that disadvantage, we often end up trying to basically mimic what others do. In a sense, that would be defined as artificial, and it's certainly outside of our introverted comfort zone.

Yet, that's the way the rest of the world operates. We, as the minority, are responsible for bearing the burden of fitting in with everyone else IF we want to be treated the same, or have the same shot in the dating game. No one should have to make unusual accommodations for our oddities except for us. Now, if you're cool with being at that constant net disadvantage, and don't wish to adapt, that's fine. But there are people on this forum who complain. These are the people who need to adapt, because CLEARLY they want the benefit of 'being like everyone else,' to put it coarsely. If having a better shot at finding a partner is your goal, or you want to be accepted more often, then you gotta put in the work, and this is THE work needed. Adapting.

And since this appears to need constant reiteration, adaptation does not mean adopting pick-up artist ethos or techniques. No one in this thread has been suggesting such.
...Usually those tactics miss the point, imo.

The other aspect of the recurring dilemmas on this forum are unrelated to Aspergers. It's just plain ole' low self-esteem. And I fail to see what's wrong with undertaking the organic processes that raises self-esteem.

Fair enough, I don't know what your life was like, such that it turned out like that. If you were a confident, happy, and pleasant fellow who didn't weird people out, and still didn't seem to attract attention, well shoot. Obviously you're not like most of the guys on this board. *shrug*
However, most of the guys here act in ways stereotypical of low self-esteem, which is generally resolved through self-improvement.

I think she was talking about therange.