Blog post on the epidemic of forced celibacy in males

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billsmithglendale
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14 Sep 2010, 6:44 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

billsmithglendale wrote:

Bethie wrote:

Sorry, I don't put much stock in articles that refer to women as "chicks" and sex as "getting p****".

I can't be bothered to pity men who want sex and can't get it any more than men who want to play in the NBA and aren't tall enough. Both are wants, not needs.

:roll:

Read the wikipedia entry on "involuntary celibacy" and see if you still think that way. The urge to reproduce is certainly more than a want, if not a need. It has long-lasting and potentially fatal effects on the lives of those who suffer from it.

suffer from it? then why isn't voluntary celibacy suffering? clearly, many people choose to be celibate, and the majority are fine with the choice. lack of sex does not necessarily mean suffering must follow.

Voluntary celibacy implies that it either isn't that important to that person (i.e. they are low-drive or asexual), or that it isn't as important to them as other things (e.g. a priest, though plenty of them seem to break that rule). I think my priest example might even show that it is such a strong drive that even those who took vows can't seem to fight the urge.

Bethie -- I'm sure their death certificate said something like "suicide" -- be sure that people do indeed die from loneliness and lack of intimacy. You're being true to your Aspie nature with your lack of empathy here.

hyperlexian
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14 Sep 2010, 7:05 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

billsmithglendale wrote:

Bethie wrote:

suicide is not necessarily caused by lack of sex in and of itself (lack of intimacy and/or loneliness are distinct from lack of sex). many factors elevate the risk of suicide (or drug/alcohol abuse), including perhaps asperger syndrome itself.

i read the wikipedia article, and notably there are multiple possible contributing factors to involuntary celibacy. also interesting is that a certain percentage of people in the involuntary celibacy situation are married. counselling could probably go very far towards assisting people in this situation.

one final point is that not all people who are involuntarily celibate are unhappy about it. for instance, there would be equal numbers of men and women in this situation, but it is largely the men who complain about it. therefore it would seem that the involuntary celibacy itself is not the problem; the problem is a person's strategies for dealing wth it.

most people, sooner or later, will be an 'incel' according to the vague definition. technically, anybody who wants regular sex at a given time and cannot get it is an incel... it could be the wife of a soldier stationed overseas, a man in between casual lovers, a 40-year-old virgin, or an unhappily married person. i think that the potential for negative results depends on how a person deals with it.

[edited for spelling and one over-generalization remved]

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Last edited by hyperlexian on 14 Sep 2010, 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bethie
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14 Sep 2010, 8:02 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:

Bethie -- I'm sure their death certificate said something like "suicide" -- be sure that people do indeed die from loneliness and lack of intimacy. You're being true to your Aspie nature with your lack of empathy here.

"Loneliness" and "lack of intimacy" AGAIN are not causes of death.

On a different note, I find it insulting and irrational that you'd single me out and chalk up my lack of empathy in this instance to my Aspie nature, when it's evident from this thread that different Aspies have different opinions JUST LIKE NON-ASPIES, not to mention the NT's with whom I've discussed the subject.

Whether it's my "nature" or not, I've yet to see the argument that differentiates the inability to have sex with the inability to kayak, knit, or perform a roundoff full twisting double layout in terms of the empathy I "should" have for the person in question.

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fs
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14 Sep 2010, 8:42 pm

Bethie wrote:

On a different note, I find it insulting and irrational that you'd single me out and chalk up my lack of empathy in this instance to my Aspie nature, when it's evident from this thread that different Aspies have different opinions JUST LIKE NON-ASPIES, not to mention the NT's with whom I've discussed the subject.

I agree with Bethie. The reason she lacks empathy isn't because she is aspie, it is because she is a woman. Just look at these poll results to see what I mean.

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Erisad
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14 Sep 2010, 8:51 pm

fs wrote:

Bethie wrote:

I agree with Bethie. The reason she lacks empathy isn't because she is aspie, it is because she is a woman. Just look at these poll results to see what I mean.

Yes, because a poll that only has about 24 participants totally is a large enough sample to label all women as insensitive? Seriously, did you not read the TOS at the top of this forum that regards sexism? :roll:

hyperlexian
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14 Sep 2010, 8:57 pm

fs wrote:

Bethie wrote:

I agree with Bethie. The reason she lacks empathy isn't because she is aspie, it is because she is a woman. Just look at these poll results to see what I mean.

so you are the expert on what people should have empathy about? maybe you could work on having empathy towards women.

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Lonermutant
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15 Sep 2010, 12:27 am

It's a clear difference between not being able to get sex or a girlfriend and not being programmed genetically for it, like Aspie males are.

Nostromos
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15 Sep 2010, 3:04 am

Quote:

I can't be bothered to pity men who want sex and can't get it any more than men who want to play in the NBA and aren't tall enough. Both are wants, not needs.

Uhh, Christ. This is exactly the kind of ignorant scoffing at the suffering of others that makes it so hard to NOT hate girls.

Answer two questions for me: are you intelligent and imaginative? Of course you are, good. Now put yourself in this situation:

-you constantly crave sex and when you are denied it, you feel as though you're seen as sub-human. It also lowers you in the eyes of all your peers, so you have to hang out with a group of marginalized types like yourself... Which isn't so bad if you're lucky enough to find healthy ones.

-You have spent your entire life unable to get sex or even much kissing or making out because of reasons that make sense to everyone else but you. Still with me?

-You struggle MIGHTILY with overcoming whatever the hell it is that makes you so obviously unattractive to everyone. You work out, you get physically attractive. You work your way into a fairly priviliged social position. Still, NOTHING WORKS and your spirit is devastated by the fact that MOST PEOPLE are enjoying an ass-load of sex without even thinking about it. Including -- and even ESPECIALLY -- people that sow human suffering: sociopathic manipulators, bullies, and similar types.

If you're human, then you should now have at least have a flicker of understanding of why no sex drives some men justifiably batshit, okay?

Quote:

pardon? i know exactly what i find attractive in a man, and i've expressed in repeatedly, in many threads. it's not a big mystery....

What makes men attractive to you?

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15 Sep 2010, 9:51 am

Nostromos wrote:

Quote:

I can't be bothered to pity men who want sex and can't get it any more than men who want to play in the NBA and aren't tall enough. Both are wants, not needs.

Uhh, Christ. This is exactly the kind of ignorant scoffing at the suffering of others that makes it so hard to NOT hate girls.

Answer two questions for me: are you intelligent and imaginative? Of course you are, good. Now put yourself in this situation:

-you constantly crave sex and when you are denied it, you feel as though you're seen as sub-human. It also lowers you in the eyes of all your peers, so you have to hang out with a group of marginalized types like yourself... Which isn't so bad if you're lucky enough to find healthy ones.

-You have spent your entire life unable to get sex or even much kissing or making out because of reasons that make sense to everyone else but you. Still with me?

-You struggle MIGHTILY with overcoming whatever the hell it is that makes you so obviously unattractive to everyone. You work out, you get physically attractive. You work your way into a fairly priviliged social position. Still, NOTHING WORKS and your spirit is devastated by the fact that MOST PEOPLE are enjoying an ass-load of sex without even thinking about it. Including -- and even ESPECIALLY -- people that sow human suffering: sociopathic manipulators, bullies, and similar types.

If you're human, then you should now have at least have a flicker of understanding of why no sex drives some men justifiably batshit, okay?

I was going to type out a response pointing out (AGAIN) that nothing you said applied only to sex and not other things one might want,
but then I decided that someone who prefaces his rant with:

a. calling me "ignorant" for not sharing an opinion
b. saying that opinion inspires hatred
c. and that that hatred is toward not me, as the holder of that opinion, but women in general (I guess that's what you meant by "girls")

is an irrational misogynist who I don't care to attempt to engage in intelligent discourse.

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15 Sep 2010, 10:08 am

fs wrote:

Bethie wrote:

I agree with Bethie. The reason she lacks empathy isn't because she is aspie, it is because she is a woman. Just look at these poll results to see what I mean.

Yes, that must be it. Women lack empathy for men when it comes to this issue based on a completely unscientific poll of a laughably small sample size.

Must be our pathetic little ladybrains.

And, in YOUR words, from your "No Girlfriend" website,

"Women don't want to be respected. They want to be taken. They love being treated like s**t and they come back for it time and time again."

Keep up the misogyny, fellas. It's obviously working so well for your dating prospects. :wink:

fs
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15 Sep 2010, 2:48 pm

Bethie wrote:

And, in YOUR words, from your "No Girlfriend" website,

"Women don't want to be respected. They want to be taken. They love being treated like sh** and they come back for it time and time again."

Keep up the misogyny, fellas. It's obviously working so well for your dating prospects. :wink:

Those aren't my words. That was said by Tom Leykis and he is speaking from experience because he has no trouble dating at all.

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hyperlexian
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15 Sep 2010, 2:51 pm

fs wrote:

Bethie wrote:

Those aren't my words. That was said by Tom Leykis and he is speaking from experience because he has no trouble dating at all.

so, do you agree with those words? because apparently you quoted them.

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15 Sep 2010, 3:00 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

so, do you agree with those words? because apparently you quoted them.

Yes I agree with those words, but only in feminist cultures. In non-feminist cultures, women appreciate men who respect them.

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hyperlexian
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15 Sep 2010, 3:05 pm

fs wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

so, do you agree with those words? because apparently you quoted them.

Yes I agree with those words, but only in feminist cultures. In non-feminist cultures, women appreciate men who respect them.

so then attributing the words to you was incorrect, but the intent was correctly attributed. you really ARE that misogynistic.

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fs
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15 Sep 2010, 3:15 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

fs wrote:

Yes I agree with those words, but only in feminist cultures. In non-feminist cultures, women appreciate men who respect them.

so then attributing the words to you was incorrect, but the intent was correctly attributed. you really ARE that misogynistic.

Clearly from my last quote, I am not misogynistic. Misogyny is a general hatred of women, while I only hate women from feminist cultures.

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hyperlexian
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15 Sep 2010, 3:18 pm

fs wrote:

hyperlexian wrote:

fs wrote:

Yes I agree with those words, but only in feminist cultures. In non-feminist cultures, women appreciate men who respect them.

so then attributing the words to you was incorrect, but the intent was correctly attributed. you really ARE that misogynistic.

Clearly from my last quote, I am not misogynistic. Misogyny is a general hatred of women, while I only hate women from feminist cultures.

technically it is still a misogyny - you cannot love women and yet want to prevent them from having equal rights. you must, be definition believe them unworthy of those rights, and cannot love them equally to men.

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