No prospect of future GF = Get a prostitute instead?

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Moog
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19 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

mv wrote:
I've seen people permanently damaged by childhood neglect and abuse. Yes, they can sort of "treat" it, but personality disorders (for example) are rather permanent. Even with "treatment" (DBT, CBT, etc.) it's a constant monitoring process so you're not really living as "you". I know, Moog, that you are optimistic about repair, and I know hyperlexian (whose opinion I respect from all I've read here, she's very generous with her advice) thinks that the human brain is plastic throughout life, but that has not been my (anecdotal) experience. Even when people want to learn and grow and change, it's not always possible.

There are forms of depression that also do not respond to any known treatment. Anxiety, too.

I'm not sure we've yet discovered the right treatment for the more complex issues. So maybe you're right, Moog, things are "fixable", we just don't have the path yet.


Thank you MV. Yes, I am an optimist. Yet, I am also aware of limitations of various kinds.There's no doubt that some problems we face are more intractable than others, perhaps some utterly so. It is my view that we should explore all possibilities, find the real limits, so we can get the best solutions.


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mv
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19 Jul 2011, 10:19 am

emlion wrote:
Moog wrote:
emlion wrote:
Jeeez, I am writing badly today. I meant the experiences are totally fixed, not that Iam totally fixed.
Anyway. This is uncomfortable for me and off-topic. :|
Sorry.


My bad, maybe I misread you. Sorry you are feeling uncomfortable. This stuff usually is. I think that's why people prefer not to go down this route. Maybe when you're more ready.


I'm a mess of writing and thoughts today. >.<
Yeah, one day at a time, I think...(:

Back to bashing prostitutes and ... men.. and whatever this thread is about, right? :wink:


I'm thinking good thoughts in your direction, emlion!

No bashing prostitutes! Bash the commoditization of human sexuality!

Also, no bashing men (unless they ask really, really nicely)... :wink:



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jul 2011, 11:11 am

Could you please bash me here? mwah.



mv
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19 Jul 2011, 11:17 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Could you please bash me here? mwah.


Is that a smudge? ON YOUR JAR? What kind of lazy ass, no good, ...

Oh, right, no hands. Sorry :oops:



mv
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19 Jul 2011, 11:18 am

Moog wrote:
Thank you MV. Yes, I am an optimist. Yet, I am also aware of limitations of various kinds.There's no doubt that some problems we face are more intractable than others, perhaps some utterly so. It is my view that we should explore all possibilities, find the real limits, so we can get the best solutions.


Agree completely. 8)



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jul 2011, 11:21 am

mv wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Could you please bash me here? mwah.


Is that a smudge? ON YOUR JAR? What kind of lazy ass, no good, ...

Oh, right, no hands. Sorry :oops:


I have a 10 meters tongue.



mv
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19 Jul 2011, 11:26 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
mv wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Could you please bash me here? mwah.


Is that a smudge? ON YOUR JAR? What kind of lazy ass, no good, ...

Oh, right, no hands. Sorry :oops:


I have a 10 meters tongue.


Now, see, you just gotta respect that in a brother. Opposable thumbs, or no thumbs, or no hands, or whatever. :wink:



hyperlexian
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19 Jul 2011, 1:57 pm

swbluto wrote:
There are fundamental neurological differences between your everyday male aspie and your every day male neurotypical, and one being the level of Oxytocin in the brain. This chemical is responsible for the "bonding feeling" that largely underlies "love", and it tends to be diminished in aspies, which leads to lessened socialization, a decreased emphasis on the importance of "the relationship" and feelings of love in general. Is this a problem? To an average neurotypical, I'm sure it would. On the global scale, who cares? It's understandable natural variation. Implying that this fundamental perceptual difference is a result of "damage" is misleading and if it were, it's certainly irreparable. (Attitudes can change, however.)

i get what you are saying here, but disagree with the solution. a lot of neurotypicals actually prefer not to have relationships either. to me, the solution is not prostitution as it is quite damaging to many of the human beings on the other end of the "transaction".

i do not consider this option positive as it reinforces the idea of female sexuality being a commodity, provides a way for men to purchase power over women, and does not help to improve the john's future interactions with other people. and there are possible negatives such a further depersonalisation of women, loss of self esteem (or negative emotions) from the awareness that the sex was purchased, and the fact that it will interfere with a man's future prospects should he ever want to have sex with non-prostitutes (approx 65% of women in my poll on WP said they would not sleep with a man who used a prostitute). it's ONLY benefit is a sexual benefit for the male.

the better solution is to either learn effective enough social skills so that casual sex can be obtained, or to work on finding value in relationships with other humans.

sex is a part of human relationships - not just long-term marriages or whatever, but even interacting on Craigslist for a casual sex partner requires a form of interpersonal contact. some people want to have sex without putting in any of the work or without having to care about other human beings even to the point of having a conversation.... i have exactly zero sympathy for that. as someone said perfectly in another thread:

AceOfSpades wrote:
A good looking woman isn't gonna fall from the sky and land on your dick so if you aren't willing to make adjustments and put effort into it, don't expect anything to improve.

...
swbluto wrote:
And, here's the link discussing the link between erectile dysfunction and prolonged virginity. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/story? ... 047&page=1

for the article, it seems you are attributing late virginity as a cause, whereas it is equally likely to be an effect. the authors state that dysfunction may precede late virginity:
Quote:
[M]en with sexual problems may avoid sexual interactions and consequently start later.


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hyperlexian
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19 Jul 2011, 2:07 pm

mv wrote:
I've seen people permanently damaged by childhood neglect and abuse. Yes, they can sort of "treat" it, but personality disorders (for example) are rather permanent. Even with "treatment" (DBT, CBT, etc.) it's a constant monitoring process so you're not really living as "you". I know, Moog, that you are optimistic about repair, and I know hyperlexian (whose opinion I respect from all I've read here, she's very generous with her advice) thinks that the human brain is plastic throughout life, but that has not been my (anecdotal) experience. Even when people want to learn and grow and change, it's not always possible.

There are forms of depression that also do not respond to any known treatment. Anxiety, too.

I'm not sure we've yet discovered the right treatment for the more complex issues. So maybe you're right, Moog, things are "fixable", we just don't have the path yet.

wellll..... BPD can be removed as a diagnosis after treatment. it is possible to be cured. also, it is possible to be cured of PTSD through interesting treatments, which is sort of related to BPD. both BPD and PTSD can cause brain changes, but they are not irreversible.

a big factor is whether a person believes the treatments will work and if they truly *want* to change (not always the case, protestations otherwise. many people are quite content to stew in their misery while receiving ministrations and treatment after treatment, all the while being incurable and too complex for anybody to understand. there is a comfort in remaining "broken".

thanks for sneaking in a compliment by the way.


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Ancalagon
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19 Jul 2011, 6:09 pm

Erisad wrote:
Because you're not paying the cashier to suck your dick, which is much more demeaning than paying them for food. The product is completely different so the comparision doesn't line up.

This doesn't support your original opinion that no man could possibly respect a woman he'd paid to have sex with him.

I was trying to make an analogy from the customer's point of view.


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Erisad
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19 Jul 2011, 6:19 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
Erisad wrote:
Because you're not paying the cashier to suck your dick, which is much more demeaning than paying them for food. The product is completely different so the comparision doesn't line up.

This doesn't support your original opinion that no man could possibly respect a woman he'd paid to have sex with him.

I was trying to make an analogy from the customer's point of view.


Whatever I'm not getting the point you're trying to make and I really don't want to talk about this anymore. I'll be out of town for a few days so I won't be online then either so it's probably best to agree to disagree. :)



aussiebloke
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19 Jul 2011, 9:18 pm

: No stick to porn , or if you have the funds a really really high quality blow up doll ,(where talking |new Korean car money here) , and people would you believe make a living servicing those things (not sexual , repairs) and yes some are delivered to the repair guy in pre loved condition :eew:

Seriously why would you want to freak out a women , you'll be embarrsing yourself they know things aren't quite right, the last time (early 20"s ) I went to a striper and got to play with her boobies they where of the magical sort :P , why magical you ask because they reminded me I'm still human after all, :P anyways she made a remark that's tattooed in my brain so aspie related she might as well said your aspie! :oops:

Not sure how I'd go now that I'm well into my 30's and well packaged (now) and went non drunkenly may be alcohol exaggerates aspie ? I Call girls are used to servicing males who are made of testicles who love to sit around stroking their guns while sustaining their energy levels with Red Bulls and microwave burritos. *

Seriously don't do it find a women here who's willing to offer her services to you surely theirs one ? any volunteers ?

*even some of the aspie women here have said their male partners have said having sex with them is weird imaginge how it would go if you wanted to please a women who are far more perceptive to these things :wink:


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Last edited by aussiebloke on 19 Jul 2011, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ilka
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19 Jul 2011, 9:24 pm

Grisha wrote:
Unless one is looking to gain experience, prostitutes are no better/worse than masturbation. It's your money...


Well, I am a woman. I do not know about men, but for me sex and masturbation are different. Same outcome, but nothing replaces the human interaction. Sex is WAY better than masturbation. I say, if you are having a hard time finding a GF, going with a prostitute is OK. Just be careful.



poopylungstuffing
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19 Jul 2011, 11:26 pm

I am not a prostitute, but certain aspects of my life sometimes make me feel like one.
Even though I am on the spectrum...Lean towards dating guys on the spectrum...Have realized that there are ways in which AS partners are limited in regards to being physically/emotionally reciprocal...(myself included depending on circumstance),,,,,,,and thusly to the best of my ability, attempt to adapt to their comfort levels. Maybe not prostitute...but engage in mutually beneficial relationships where I do not take more than I am able to give back..and end up giving more than taking....There is a void in regards to emotional intimacy...no obligation on partner to do anything that goes beyond his comfort zone...tho there is a great gray area of "don't ask don't tell" that comes with the avoidance of our discussing any aspect of our relationship that moves beyond the simplicity of the occasions that we get to be together...Am not sure why this arrangement makes me feel like a prostitute other than the fact that my "sig oth" (who I do not live with, do not forsee marrying, and who has merely admitted that he is only comfortable seeing some one part-time)....Is not the only person who wants stuff from me...and there is more that I need than I can get from that arrangement.... :?



Sallamandrina
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20 Jul 2011, 1:43 am

mv wrote:
I've seen people permanently damaged by childhood neglect and abuse. Yes, they can sort of "treat" it, but personality disorders (for example) are rather permanent. Even with "treatment" (DBT, CBT, etc.) it's a constant monitoring process so you're not really living as "you". I know, Moog, that you are optimistic about repair, and I know hyperlexian (whose opinion I respect from all I've read here, she's very generous with her advice) thinks that the human brain is plastic throughout life, but that has not been my (anecdotal) experience. Even when people want to learn and grow and change, it's not always possible.

There are forms of depression that also do not respond to any known treatment. Anxiety, too.

I'm not sure we've yet discovered the right treatment for the more complex issues. So maybe you're right, Moog, things are "fixable", we just don't have the path yet.


Indeed - I think anybody with direct experience with abused children (or survivors of other severe/extreme traumas) knows that some types of damage are irreversible. I think the psyche is pretty much like the body in this respect: a broken limb can heal but once it's severed it will never grow back. One can learn to function very well without it (or find a good prosthesis maybe) but many don't have access to adequate support or the strength and motivation to do it. The healing process itself can become devastating or damaging in some cases.


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20 Jul 2011, 2:12 am

I don't even like going to strip clubs anymore....haven't gone to one in at least 6 years. The last time I visited one, it was depressing as f**k...for any number of reasons, not the least of which I felt sad for the women who felt compelled to do this. What hopes had their father and mother had for their daughter when she was growing up? What dreams did she have when she was growing up?

bah....