What is misogyny? What is misandry?

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MushroomPrincess
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04 Oct 2017, 10:39 am

Closet Genious wrote:
The problem I have is that instead of trying to find the most reliable source possible, you go out of your way to try and find the highest number you can.

Closet Genious wrote:
the most reliable source possible


So now government sources are "unreliable"? And I'm "going out of my way" to find them? What makes your source more reliable than mine? Earlier, you wanted to dismiss my argument because it didn't come from a government bureau. Now I have a government source, but you want to dismiss my argument because... reasons.

Maybe you should try actually addressing my arguments instead of just making up reasons why they don't count?



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04 Oct 2017, 10:39 am

magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Sorry, I am simply asking you this question. It's not related to your quote.

I never claimed anything like 1/4 or 1/6 of women in the US has been raped. Government figures seem reasonable to me, you don't need to presuade it to me. I don't believe in all this "rape culture" in the West as well. The very idea of a rape is detested by all the males I know personally.



I am not saying you did; I am not accusing you of anything - I was just simply conducting an online survey :lol:.



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04 Oct 2017, 10:43 am

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
The problem I have is that instead of trying to find the most reliable source possible, you go out of your way to try and find the highest number you can.

Closet Genious wrote:
the most reliable source possible


So now government sources are "unreliable"? And I'm "going out of my way" to find them? What makes your source more reliable than mine? Earlier, you wanted to dismiss my argument because it didn't come from a government bureau. Now I have a government source, but you want to dismiss my argument because... reasons.

Maybe you should try actually addressing my arguments instead of just making up reasons why they don't count?


I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?

In my mind, anyone who has half a brain, will think that 1 in 5 sounds ridiculous.



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04 Oct 2017, 10:52 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
magz wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Sorry, I am simply asking you this question. It's not related to your quote.

I never claimed anything like 1/4 or 1/6 of women in the US has been raped. Government figures seem reasonable to me, you don't need to presuade it to me. I don't believe in all this "rape culture" in the West as well. The very idea of a rape is detested by all the males I know personally.



I am not saying you did; I am not accusing you of anything - I was just simply conducting an online survey :lol:.

You and your online experiments!
I personally know of 2 cases but have no idea how many of the women I know would tell me about such a thing (except for the ones who did).


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04 Oct 2017, 10:57 am

I am calling Kim anyway.



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04 Oct 2017, 11:08 am

Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.



magz
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04 Oct 2017, 11:16 am

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.

Cite the source you use, pls. Give links. I did.


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04 Oct 2017, 11:20 am

magz wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.

Cite the source you use, pls. Give links. I did.


She is referring to this one: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf



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04 Oct 2017, 11:21 am



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04 Oct 2017, 1:14 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
She is referring to this one: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/172837.pdf

Thanks.
I've been looking for other similar studies because the results that can't be recreated are not scientific.
Found that study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK202270/ comparing different survey results.
The overall graphic results:
Image
Assuming ca. 300 mln people in USA, about half of them female, it gives about 2/1000 raped per year. Slightly more than the BJS figures but not a game-changer.
If a result of an experiment cannot be recreated by other, independent groups, it is not trustworthy.

If you have more power to go through it, correct me :)


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04 Oct 2017, 6:12 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.


Am I a woman? Cause people constantly tell me to post links to prove my opinions.
Whys everything sexist and about the patriarchy to you?



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04 Oct 2017, 8:26 pm

sly279 wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.


Am I a woman? Cause people constantly tell me to post links to prove my opinions.
Whys everything sexist and about the patriarchy to you?


Because it's part of feminist doctrine, too see everything(selectively) through the lense of gender oppression. They believe in a conspiracy theory called patriarchy, and use tortured statistics and advocacy resarch to prove how much worse women have it.



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04 Oct 2017, 8:45 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.

Patriarchal societies don't exist.



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04 Oct 2017, 11:34 pm

sly279 wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
I could throw the same back at you. Why aren't the BJS stats good enough for you?


Why does it keep coming back to me? Why is it only my responsibility to explain why my arguments are valid, while you expect me to just take yours for granted? Why do I have to prove that my beliefs and values, my thoughts and experiences, my officially cited sources, are equal to yours? Apparently I can't just state a fact and let it stand on its own, like you guys can. I have to constantly prove that my words have any merit. This is what it means to be a woman in a patriarchal society.


Am I a woman? Cause people constantly tell me to post links to prove my opinions.
Whys everything sexist and about the patriarchy to you?


Your avatar is fairly feminine in nature. Perhaps people are assuming you are female.
Certainly, males are often requested to provide sources, however I have had a significantly higher burden of proof when known to be female rather than when I have been assumed to have been male on online science forums.



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04 Oct 2017, 11:47 pm

What's so hard to understand about the nature of the questions changing the nature of the answers. People may not feel like they've been raped, and answer no to that question. They may also have had people do things to them against their will which fit the definition of sexual assault, and answer yes if asked specifically about that. They may answer yes and no in different circumstances, to different questioners. That's how people store memories. Any decent survey whose results would survive peer review will have mechanisms to catch liars, so don't even go there.


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04 Oct 2017, 11:57 pm

One issue with rapists is many of them don't understand that their actions constitute rape, thus they don't consider themselves rapists.

This man raped a girl and it was live streamed. Listen to his attempt to minimize it and justify his actions, and look at the commentors blaming the girl or saying it shouldn't be considered rape because she initially consented, even though she withdrew consent before he began.



This man, by the definition of rape in many states, raped a girl, and at the very least, sexually assaulted with penetration in others, and didn't seem to think it was rape/assault.

Image

Gang rape is an epidemic in Cambodia...
Gang Rape Pervasive Across Cambodia

And many of it's perpetrators don't think it's rape...
Why Some Men in Cambodia Don't Think Gang Rape is Gang Rape

One young man who had participated in a gang rape against a girl, and later came to realize the horribleness of what he had done, said that he didn't initially view it as rape because the woman had been a girl because the girl had been a prostitute. She had agreed to have sex for money with one of them without realizing he would bring his friends, and backed out when she saw it was more than one man, but they raped her.

The reasoning was that she was selling sex so it wasn't rape and this is a common reasoning among rapists and their supporters but this reason is never applied to other forms of commerce. For example, no one thinks that buying one bag of chips entitles one to take all of the bags of chips in the store. And no one thinks that buying movie tickets for 6pm entitles one to see a movie the next day at 4pm or even 6pm.

Have you ever heard a woman who has stolen a man's credit card and who had gone on a shopping spree say "Well he paid for my drink so he must have wanted it"? or other women say "He consented to spending money on her so it wasn't theft"?

I haven't.