"You need to work on yourself!"

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Very true. There are a lot of factors that go into social success.

Re: Christians being wimpy vs oppressed vs wealthy—Many Christians, especially in the Bible Belt, are raised with a certain uncompromising work ethic. We believe in being productive, hence the wealth. We chase money because we believe in exchanging value for value.

We’re told we’re supposed to feel guilty about that, but I say consider the source. Lazy, entitled, jealous, greedy people hate the idea of having to earn wealth. And they’ll take advantage of the needy, disguising themselves as victims to get it. They’ll rattle off out-of-context Bible verses like “ask and you will receive,” “love thy neighbor,” and the Golden Rule. And Christians often fall for it. We’ve become so concerned with compassion and mercy that we’ve completely forgotten about justice. It’s this total lack of any sense of justice that’s messed up Christianity. If Christians were to act positively for justice and shut down the haters, you’d have a completely different perception of us.

Yes, we are an oppressed group in America despite constituting a majority. Yes, it is that bad. If I were to get into specifics right now, I’d get banned from WP. No, I’m not kidding. But in our case as opposed to the rest of the world, it’s our own fault. We don’t pursue justice. We don’t shout down haters. We don’t force media to report on reality. And we put the needs of those people who ought to be put in jail ahead of those who are actually doing good for society. If Christians actually believed what they say and practiced what’s in the Bible, you wouldn’t have the greedy victim class you see here.

We don’t decapitate our Christians. Oh no. We just fire them, or if they are small business owners we sue them beyond bankruptcy. We don’t kill them. Civilized societies would never slaughter those they religiously discriminate against. It’s much more proper to make it impossible for them to live.

Pray tell. How exactly are the Christians oppressed in America, when they are the majority and many of whom you claim to be so very wealthy?

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/28/us/la-ri ... index.html
A perspective of America from Koreans living in California.

You all are going at this from the wrong direction.

It's not a matter of "All Christians are ...".

It's a matter of "Christians living in a certain area tend to be ..." and "Christians of a certain socio-economic stratum tend to be ...".

I live near Bob Schuler's old "Crystal Cathedral" (now a Catholic "Christ Cathedral"). The place looks like something out of a futuristic sci-fi movie. 20 miles southwest of here used to be the Trinity Broadcast Network's headquarters, which rivaled both the White House and the Vatican for opulence. The Bel Air Presbyterian Church looks like a private university campus. In short, here in southern California, Christianity is known for its conspicuous consumption -- the idea that as long as God is making you prosperous, you are free to show off your wealth.

I grew up in Michigan. My home church sits on a corner south of downtown. It shares parking with the Baptist church across the street, and the liquor store on the far corner. Most other churches in the town operate out of store fronts or rent spaces at the Marriot down the highway. So where I grew up, Christianity is known for its "Make the best of what you have" attitude.

I spent some time in a small town the Bible Belt of Indiana. Every church claimed to be under assault from an unseen enemy. Preachers preached on the End Times, the "Evils of Science", sin, damnation, and the erosion of any sense of morality in our public schools. Members had a siege mentality, and were just waiting to pounce on each other at the least indication of backsliding or "Secret Sin" -- judgmentalism was rampant.

Just as there is no one "Typical Aspie", there is no one "Typical Christian Church" (or "Typical Christian", for that matter).

I already hinted at that. I can’t go into any more details without violating TOS.

This is going way beyond the scope of a L&D thread, so I’m dropping it here. The problem of religious discrimination in America is that Christians have abdicated justice for the sake of a growing “victim” class. As a Christian, I do firmly believe in “mercy above law.” I do NOT believe in mercy at the expense of the law. I believe in “remove the beam from your own eye.” I do not believe in pretending there is no speck. I believe “do not judge” was intended to mean “equal justice.” I do not believe “do not judge” means no justice at all.

American Christians will be the first to cry “injustice” and launch cruise missiles when someone literally loses his head in the middle east. Yet they say nothing when a “victim” shuts down a business and threatens one’s right to exist right here at home. At least the guy in the middle east has a quick end to it. The same thing happens here, it just looks different. We don’t end lives. We end livelihoods. We make life unliveable and force Christians to think the way we want them to.

It’s no different. Over there they kill the body. Here they kill the mind. It’s death either way. Where I live, state laws have been passed specifically to prevent “victims” from threatening our livelihoods. But in other states in the US, Christians are at risk.

Or at least they HAVE been. It depends on the administration and the justice department currently in power. It’s a pendulum. There’s never a sure way of knowing where you stand from one day to the next.

Yes, it is oh so impossible for Christians to live in America!

Half my co-workers walk around with crosses hanging from their necks or on their cubicle walls. And guess what? As long as they don't harass anybody, nobody cares. The vast majority of small business owners are Christian. In fact, most large businesses are owned by Christians! And so long as they do not discriminate against their employees or customers, nobody cares!

Yes, your business can be sued if you discriminate against homosexuals. Just like everyone else!

Yes, you can get fired from your job if you proselytize to and harass your clients or co-workers. Just like everyone else!

And yes, you are not allowed to force all students in public schools to practice your religion, or to push your personal faith-based beliefs in classrooms as if they were scientific facts. Just like everyone else!

How dare you try to claim that the exploited men and women who often have to work multiple full-time jobs just to keep their family clothed and fed, while the minimum wages they are paid for their hard work are not sufficient to keep up with the ever-growing basic costs of living, are lazy and greedy?!

That you think homosexuals, immigrants, Muslims, Atheists, etc.. all "deserve to be in prison", all while crying about how oppressed you are, goes a long way in revealing the content of your character.

Basically, some Christians ( and I do emphasize some) think they are oppressed when they are not allowed to oppress others.

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equally feels like oppression."

You're right to free speech includes the right to have a temper tantrum because you're not getting you're way on everything, but all that accomplishes is revealing your true colors to everyone else. So by all mean, cry on.

I feel like I'm going to get sick. I'm out of here!

Straw man attacks, ad hominem attacks, and red herrings. It's amazing what passes for rationality these days! It's entirely possible having to think for yourself might have a dizzying effect and may give you a sense of motion sickness. You'll adjust after a while. These are things that really need to be brought up in PPR, not L&D--except you CAN'T. Certain things you mentioned are not open to discussion as per TOS. Now back to the regularly scheduled topic...

Well go start a PPR thread on this then. When you make such vague statements under the pretense of violating the TOS, people are just left to assume you must be some kind of nazi or something.

This is true.

You're highlighting a lot of things I think have become problems for Christians. "Meek shall inherit" is comforting for those without means, opportunity, or ability--those who cannot do for themselves through no fault of their own. At no point should ANYONE be made to feel guilty for doing well. Death is the great equalizer, so Christianity should be seen as valuing something greater than and apart from the material world. People should be judged neither for possessing nor lacking in wealth. Christians SHOULD value others enough to help them in times of need, just as God values us to give whatever we ask. I think what we have to look out for is "need" used as a weapon to demand what is undeserved from those we envy.

Getting back to "You need to work on yourself!" I think this highlights part of the underlying problem. It's easy to envy those who enter relationships easily. It's easy to envy people who have worked hard enough to build muscle, increase energy, stay motivated even if it means reading cheesy inspirational literature, and so on. I'm maintaining leaner muscle, a healthier weight, and I'm running longer and longer distances every week with relatively few aftereffects (although I had an incident on last week's long run. Tape adhesive failure exposing "sensitive areas" resulting in bleeding. Had to call for help after 8.59 miles. Goal was 13. It was a bad day). There are challenges along the way. Sometimes it's health related. Sometimes it's a matter of staying organized. Sometimes it's time management. Sometimes it's minor lifestyle tweaks. But you don't accomplish those things without earning them.

You won't build muscle unless you pump iron until it hurts. You can't become a distance runner without concentrating on cardio. Your chest will begin to hurt within a few minutes. Your lungs will be on fire. KEEP GOING for just a few more minutes. Your body will settle into it. If you feel slightly dizzy or numb, learn to tell the difference between being "in the zone" and doing damage. Walk it off when you're done. Expect to feel stiff legs later on. Expect to feel some tightness in your chest. It will pass. Repeat the next day. Take a couple days off to let your muscles recover and build. Use protein shakes to speed recovery. Stay at it day after day, week after week. Set goals and CRUSH them. You won't notice that you're getting stronger and faster, but you will. I started out at barely 11 min average pace. My 5k pace has consistently been under 8 min. for the last 3 weeks. I EXPECT to only improve. And seeing my overall ranking and age group ranking slide up the charts in races makes me feel good because I feel I've earned it. The things I DO feel guilty about is looking back when I used to only train 3 days a week and my only goals were to not finish last--I always came in on the low end of average overall and sometimes dead last in my age group, and feeling I barely worked for it. Now I feel like I'm killing myself on the track and on the highway. I came in last in my age group at the last 5k, but my age group happened to be the most competitive at this particular race, not to mention participation was low. I beat a couple of guys who came in ahead of me last year, which is good. And considering I was 7th out of 33, well...I'm ok with that. Last year it was 9th out of 23. I have a realistic shot at 3rd overall by next year if I increase the intensity of my speed work. It's gonna take getting my pace under 7 minutes. The last 5k I ran before the summer I did at 8:10 pace, 20th out of 68, and 3rd in age group. At present I'm under 8 min. in training, like I said, so it's a HUGE improvement since the summer.

It sounds easy when I don't mention the cramps, shin splints, rivers of sweat, blistered toes, plantar fasciitis, ingrown toenails, sunburns, windburns, "stingers" from the "adhesive failure" I mentioned earlier, worn-out shoes, heat, cold, and rain. I ran out of time one Friday afternoon from setting up for a gig and missed a run. I left the gig at 11:00, changed clothes, and hit the track until after midnight. And did an 8-mile long run the next day. The school choir is singing the national anthem at a playoff football game tonight and I'm running sound. I have to put in 7 miles SOMEWHERE. And STILL put in 14 miles tomorrow. And head out of town to shop for necessities.

It's easy to look at athletes, musicians, businessmen and envy what they have. It always seems so effortless. What's not always so apparent is the long road that got them there. What's not apparent is the ongoing work they continue to do on themselves to STAY where they are. My vice is my diet. I don't like eating the way elite runners eat. It's nice being able to eat half a pizza and not see any difference in my waistline. What sucks is when I'm in the middle of a long run and my stomach reminds me that I ate half a pizza last night. Self-improvement is an all-in commitment. It means eating, drinking, and working the same way successful, productive people consume and work. And a lot of times it means you are the only person deriving any joy from it.

If you get no joy from it, it's not worth doing. If there's not payoff, no VALUE in what you do, then QUIT.

Pursuing women for its own sake is not going to bring you any joy. Being in a relationship for its own sake will not bring you joy. Working out/body building for its own sake will not bring you any joy. Working on yourself in any capacity will not bring you joy. You know I'm a musician. I used to think that the purpose of making music was to bring it to the world. I got frustrated when other commitments that allowed me to make music took away from my ability to create music to share on YouTube and other outlets and to profit from it. It frustrated me that I couldn't get people together who really appreciated what I did, and I always felt bad that I couldn't manage my time well enough nor feel motivated enough to put all of that together. Then I realized, hey, my music is AWESOME. And if nobody appreciates it, screw them. I like it and that's enough. If nobody but me ever hears a single note that I write, it's because nobody else deserves to hear it. Maybe I'll come back and push my own music "out there." But for now, what I do musically needs to be a private endeavor reserved for the chosen few people close enough to me to value it.

You know how I feel about my faith. Faith for its own sake will not bring you joy. If there's nothing to gain from believing, what's the point of believing? The Bible would be a big book of blank pages if God had nothing to offer those He directed to write it. I've mentioned some things I feel are wrong with Christianity in America. Part of that comes from a feeling that Christianity is not something you're supposed to "get anything" from. It's delusional to pretend there's nothing to offer, else why call yourself a Christian? What sense does it make to follow something so-called "rational" people and "brights" claim is a bunch of fairy tales? Obviously I've come to a different conclusion. But many Christians haven't gotten as far as I have. They suffer needlessly, never once asking, "Why?" So they spend their days in misery believing poverty is best or otherwise feeling guilty for their accomplishments. They live in conflict with their values and are joyless and ineffective--or, at least, ineffective in living up to their fullest potential.

I'm not asking anyone to believe the same way I do. I'm just asking what it is people REALLY want. Are you stuck on a self-improvement hamster wheel? Are you chasing things you can't have? Are you trying to meet unreasonable standards? Is the work in attaining something you want too much for you to reasonably or realistically achieve? Then quit. Just quit. Drop out. Let it go. Pursue those things you value that you CAN achieve. Work hard at things you CAN do. Don't look at any menial task as something that is beneath you. Earn your way in order to pursue what matters most to you. But don't afford others the benefit of your very best. Not the rednecks and ghetto thugs. They haven't worked to deserve what you have to offer. Jesus said, "do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not cast your pearls before swine." You don't have to even believe in God or Jesus to grasp the wisdom of that and understand how it applies here. It was relevant some 2000 years ago, and it hasn't changed the least [expletive] bit since.

If you are a great guy and no girl can recognize that, don't bother gracing those girls with your presence. If you WANT the girl, work for her and demonstrate her value. Do not live for her, and do not desire for her to live for you. Be joyful in having her presence in your life, even if it just means being friends. Even if she "has a boyfriend," be joyful. Be joyful in every smile you earn from a woman. Be joyful for every kind word, especially if those kind words were earned by your contributions to her quality of life, however meager that may be. Those are successes. Those are things you've worked for and produced results. Enjoy it. This is at the root of self-improvement, and it's always worth the effort.

I've known plenty of people who do not come close to that standard but still don't have any problems dating. In fact, I've even known some who are significantly fatter than I've ever been.

I'm not unable to attract women because I don't have the body of an Olympic level athlete. I'm unable to attract women because I don't have neurotypical social skills.

I'm not a standard Adonis type. I'm 5 foot 5 and chubby. I only worked out in the 1990s.

I've had many relationships, one engagement, and I'm currently married.

That's exactly the point I'm trying to make. I'm fed up of the strawman nonsense that the reason someone cannot attract a partner is that they're too lazy to work out day and night until they look like Olympic athletes, as if that's what every person who is married or in a relationship does.

What were some of the more common and more tiresome ways that you had to dumb yourself down?

I'm inclined to believe that a lot of the autistic community's problems could be solved, at least partially, if the community itself were much bigger and better organized, and if we could build a bunch of overlapping autistic-friendly subcultures as well. Such organization, on a local basis, could make it much easier for autistic people (especially autistic heterosexual men) to make friends and thus find both jobs and relationships.

One possible fly in the ointment, however, might be difficulties in interaction between different kinds of autistic people, so I would be interested to hear more about your frustrations in this regard.

This is one reason why we need bigger and better LOCAL autistic communities and autistic-friendly subcultures, in my opinion. To have more ways that autistic people can find people IRL who will accept them.

Introverts Unite! And go out and be social!

Yeah, that'll work.

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Last edited by AngelRho on 02 Nov 2018, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.