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cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:36 pm

this discussion is not about "I am right and you are wrong" its about determining how to interpret appropriate boundaries that everyone is agreeable about. that is how a healthy society operates.



funeralxempire
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01 Oct 2024, 5:37 pm

It'd be nice to be able to have a thread of this nature without it immediately being taken over by posters dropping sexist generalizations and needing to have it explained yet again why those generalizations are sexist.

But if that didn't occur I worry that we'd have half as many members, all straight males and mostly peddling red pill and MGTOW and pick-up artist nonsense, or blackpill incel nonsense when they burn out from attempting and failing at the former.


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IsabellaLinton
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01 Oct 2024, 5:39 pm

cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I’m quite confident men wouldn’t accept us generalising about (all) men in negative ways, even if we provided stats from misandrists about violence against women and sex crimes, unless we used multiple qualifiers. Even those of us who have experienced significant trauma don’t tread into those waters, partly because it’s not true and the fault of all men but also because it would be sexist and hurtful to the good men of WP. Besides, it’s against the rules.


I personally would not care twighlight, if your thoughts are coming from personal feelings and you tell us this is how you feel.




What do you mean? Neither of us feel that way regardless of our history. We don’t hate men or blame all men, but have had to do backflips to prove it while meanwhile, some men apparently feel free to generalise about (all) women and they even mock them for having trauma, without recourse.


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cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:39 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
A good rule of thumb would be to consider whether making a similar generalization about another demographic such as a racial minority would be offensive in some way. I think the problem is that many are desensitized to sexism since it’s normalized in society and has largely been normalized on WP over the years. That doesn’t make it any less harmful or problematic.


Again there are boundaries. I have no problem with somebody who experienced something that would be construed as racist saying they "feel" about a group. Its then up to others to help them see that bad experiences don't equate with an entire group.



TwilightPrincess
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01 Oct 2024, 5:40 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
That has nothing to do with anything that’s been said in this thread. Besides that, they aren’t the folks who are typically causing problems.

Wow, so you are allowed to make generalisations but absolutely nobody else is allowed...right, got it....

That’s not the same thing. As I’ve mentioned before, gender, race, sexual identity, and the like necessitate special consideration on WP because they are sensitive topics due to the sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. that folks experience in their lives and to make this place inclusive and supportive. It’s not exactly rocket science.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 01 Oct 2024, 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:41 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
It'd be nice to be able to have a thread of this nature without it immediately being taken over by posters dropping sexist generalizations and needing to have it explained yet again why those generalizations are sexist.

But if that didn't occur I worry that we'd have half as many members, all straight males and mostly peddling red pill and MGTOW and pick-up artist nonsense, or blackpill incel nonsense when they burn out from attempting and failing at the former.


I'm agreeable with this, but are you insinuating I take over threads?



cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:41 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I’m quite confident men wouldn’t accept us generalising about (all) men in negative ways, even if we provided stats from misandrists about violence against women and sex crimes, unless we used multiple qualifiers. Even those of us who have experienced significant trauma don’t tread into those waters, partly because it’s not true and the fault of all men but also because it would be sexist and hurtful to the good men of WP. Besides, it’s against the rules.


I personally would not care twighlight, if your thoughts are coming from personal feelings and you tell us this is how you feel.




What do you mean? Neither of us feel that way regardless of our history. We don’t hate men or blame all men, but have had to do backflips to prove it while meanwhile, some men apparently feel free to generalise about (all) women and they even mock them for having trauma, without recourse.


I am not talking about you specifically, I am saying "if"



TwilightPrincess
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01 Oct 2024, 5:42 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
I’m quite confident men wouldn’t accept us generalising about (all) men in negative ways, even if we provided stats from misandrists about violence against women and sex crimes, unless we used multiple qualifiers. Even those of us who have experienced significant trauma don’t tread into those waters, partly because it’s not true and the fault of all men but also because it would be sexist and hurtful to the good men of WP. Besides, it’s against the rules.


I personally would not care twighlight, if your thoughts are coming from personal feelings and you tell us this is how you feel.




What do you mean? Neither of us feel that way regardless of our history. We don’t hate men or blame all men, but have had to do backflips to prove it while meanwhile, some men apparently feel free to generalise about (all) women and they even mock them for having trauma, without recourse.

This!



cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:43 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
That has nothing to do with anything that’s been said in this thread. Besides that, they aren’t the folks who are typically causing problems.

Wow, so you are allowed to make generalisations but absolutely nobody else is allowed...right, got it....

That’s not the same thing. As I’ve mentioned before, gender, race, sexual identity, and the like necessitate special consideration on WP because they are sensitive topics due to the sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. that folks experience in their lives and to make this place inclusive and supportive. It’s not exactly rocket science.


You are not seeing your own bias. WP is a place for people with autism "And others who are family or allies". I merely corrected your sweeping generalisation WP is only a support place for people with autism.



cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:45 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
What do you mean? Neither of us feel that way regardless of our history. We don’t hate men or blame all men, but have had to do backflips to prove it while meanwhile, some men apparently feel free to generalise about (all) women and they even mock them for having trauma, without recourse.

This![/quote]

You taking things literally and personally - I do not care if people are sharing their personal feeling/thoughts as I can't judge people for how they are conditioned to think (not taling about you or Isabella specifically)



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01 Oct 2024, 5:47 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It'd be nice to be able to have a thread of this nature without it immediately being taken over by posters dropping sexist generalizations and needing to have it explained yet again why those generalizations are sexist.

But if that didn't occur I worry that we'd have half as many members, all straight males and mostly peddling red pill and MGTOW and pick-up artist nonsense, or blackpill incel nonsense when they burn out from attempting and failing at the former.


I'm agreeable with this, but are you insinuating I take over threads?


Not just you because you're not the only one who makes those sorts of problematic statements, but it's also the corrections. I don't fault the people doing the corrections, but the very need for them creates this outcome where these threads end up being a rehashing of the last discussion about sexist generalizations rather than whatever the OP was hoping to discuss.

Also, I'm not just insinuating it, I'm explicitly saying it.


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cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:48 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It'd be nice to be able to have a thread of this nature without it immediately being taken over by posters dropping sexist generalizations and needing to have it explained yet again why those generalizations are sexist.

But if that didn't occur I worry that we'd have half as many members, all straight males and mostly peddling red pill and MGTOW and pick-up artist nonsense, or blackpill incel nonsense when they burn out from attempting and failing at the former.


I'm agreeable with this, but are you insinuating I take over threads?


Not just you because you're not the only one who makes those sorts of problematic statements, but it's also the corrections. I don't fault the people doing the corrections, but the very need for them creates this outcome where these threads end up being a rehashing of the last discussion about sexist generalizations rather than whatever the OP was hoping to discuss.

Also, I'm not just insinuating it, I'm explicitly saying it.


Ok I think I have said what I needed to. Again I apologise if I am perceived this way, it is not my intention.



TwilightPrincess
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01 Oct 2024, 5:49 pm

Wanting people to abide by the rules and not engage in bigotry seems like a reasonable expectation that some male members care about - members like UCD, Duck, and FXE for example.

cyberdad wrote:
You are not seeing your own bias. WP is a place for people with autism "And others who are family or allies". I merely corrected your sweeping generalisation WP is only a support place for people with autism.
It’s really not bias, and once again, it’s not the same thing. Sexist generalizations and general observations about the composition and focus of this site cannot be equated. One thing is against the rules, the other is not although I suspect you’re just trying to engage in deflection.



cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:54 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Wanting people to abide by the rules and not engage in bigotry seems like a reasonable expectation that some male members care about - members like UCD, Duck, and FXE for example.
cyberdad wrote:
You are not seeing your own bias. WP is a place for people with autism "And others who are family or allies". I merely corrected your sweeping generalisation WP is only a support place for people with autism.
It’s really not bias, and once again, it’s not the same thing. Sexist generalizations and general observations about the composition of this site cannot be equated. One thing is against the rules, the other is not although I suspect you’re just trying to engage in deflection.


Interpretation of flexibility of site rules is the issue. I think you see more "harder" boundaries and mine are more "softer" boundaries.



TwilightPrincess
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01 Oct 2024, 5:56 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Wanting people to abide by the rules and not engage in bigotry seems like a reasonable expectation that some male members care about - members like UCD, Duck, and FXE for example.
cyberdad wrote:
You are not seeing your own bias. WP is a place for people with autism "And others who are family or allies". I merely corrected your sweeping generalisation WP is only a support place for people with autism.
It’s really not bias, and once again, it’s not the same thing. Sexist generalizations and general observations about the composition of this site cannot be equated. One thing is against the rules, the other is not although I suspect you’re just trying to engage in deflection.


Interpretation of flexibility of rules is the issue. I think you see more "harder" boundaries and mine are more "softer" boundaries.

Perhaps your “softer” view of boundaries is why so many of your posts and threads related to L&D or women are removed, edited, locked, or otherwise addressed by various members. Modifying one’s view may be prudent if it often leads to negative outcomes.



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 01 Oct 2024, 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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01 Oct 2024, 5:57 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Perhaps your “softer” view of boundaries is why so many of your posts and threads are removed, edited, and locked. Modifying one’s view may be prudent if it often leads to negative outcomes.


You forgot "reported" and what you call "many" isn't that significant as you are making it out to be.