Question for the Aspie males that want girlfriends.

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Tim, at the end of the day, I'm with HaleBopp, I don't care what you, Toad, and others do with your life. But if you insist on complaining, obviously you aren't happy with your circumstances, and I'm going to give advice on how to improve yourself. If what you're looking for is someone to coddle you and say "It's ok, you aren't the problem, the NT world stinks" that isn't going to happen.

It's up to you. You can keep complaining to the moderator that "TheRange is picking on me" or you can listen to Sound, HaleBopp, and others, who say the same things as me, and they lay it out even clearer. But NO women want a guy with low self-esteem.

Being yourself does not mean you neglect correcting or dealing with issues that you have.

I think this is the one thing that most AS men miss. You may claim, what is wrong with being yourself. Well nothing, except being yourself does not mean you should not strive to correct your problems.

There is nothing "false" in trying to adress issues related to the ASD. Whether it is trying to reduce meltdowns or become more empathetic to the opposite sex. I can go on, but you can be yourself, and still strive to improve yourself. They are not mutually exclusive. Who we are as human beings is the capacity to learn and adapt while still maintaining our sense of identity.

Having poor social skills (with no attempt of trying to improve them), not taking care of one's apppearance, regardless of attraction level, and being depressed and bitter have never been and will never be attractive to women.

You completely ignored the part where i said I actually WANT to see Tim Tex and Toad improve their lives. Its not just a case about avoiding annoying threads, you get involved with people and want to see them helped also.
The threads alone don't frustrate me - the fact they don't do anything to help themselves does. When I get off WP I stop caring, but that really isn't the point.

And i'm very sorry to say, as you people (and me as I have an ASD ) can't help it, but Aspergers will never be an attractive trait to most people, so it counts as an unattractive one. You have to go out of your way to try and improve your other traits to make yourself appealing to the majority of people.

Yeah its not fair, but what is in life? You deal with the hand you're dealt to your advantage the best you can.

I think that is close to everyone.

It is a mixture of particular views, and the fact the probable steps he would need to take can't be solved by the brief reactive opinions. We only know part of the story; I never take anything on face value. To stay of objective you have to threat it as a problem that needs to be solved only, and try best to divorce yourself from it.

I think it is odd but normal that people get so het up by the dismissive attitude of Toad or others. They don't have to read these threads. If I'm honest some of the advice is a bit wishy washy and metaphysical, and no I'm not referring to you. But seriously, it is easy to get fixated on what sort of person you are, etc but that can be part of the problem: People over thinking their "trueness" and getting stuck in their heads.



Yes I understand, this is fairly typical when someone has barriers emotional or otherwise. However it is the wrong approach to keep hammering it in if they aren't responding to that, similarly reverse psychology is falling on deaf ears. I'm not going to make any detailed suggestions, without an investigative stage, which would be difficult for me to carry out remotely. The words may relate, each but person’s situation is unique.


Your faith in him is admirable. Yes it is true if he has trust issues it may be useful later. However faith can cloud your judgement somewhat. I actually have two differing perspective on where to start probing. From a disability standpoint you might start from "least dangerous assumption". I am a friend and mentor to a non-verbal autie with CP. It is really easy to assume that if someone can't communicate they are basically ret*d or “PMLD” (Profound and Multiple Learning Disabled). When in fact they could be capable of all sort of things but just can't show you. On the other hand I have clinical cognitive dysfunction, and it is really easy for someone to assume based on my verbal skill that I have all manner of a capabilities I don't have. In any event you have to really want to find out. But on approach a balance needs to be struck.


See above. I think we should help with a way forward that is unassuming and not premature. Like explaining the basic premise of approaches like CBT. I question the pure immersion. CBT is much more useful than pure immersion, and has proven efficacy for mood, anxiety, personality, eating, substance abuse, and even psychotic disorders. There was some suggestion that immersion might be good for thing like PTSD. I think that is a brash and generalised assessment. I wouldn’t advocate setting off firecrackers in the faces of shell-shocked veterans. Of course CBT can include many techniques such a immersion, aversion, conditioning and so on, because it is not a technique but an approach to problem solving. The main point is whatever strategy you roll out it is appropriately graduated for where you are.

Don’t get me wrong immersion on it own has is merits. If you really are able determined you can sometims pull it off, but it is not something for people who are in two minds. I took that approach to martial arts. I really wanted to enjoy martial arts, and I forced my self to go. Had really bad apprehension about it for years, but I just tried to run roughshod over it and kept going. Now I enjoy it very much, and am passing on my knowledge. However I reiterate, I wouldn’t recommend this in general, you have to bear in mind I made a lot of progress before this, and I wouldn’t have done this without making many baby steps before, and I had a really great shrink to help. If you are not adequately prepared to deal with the pressure you can end up reinforcing negative behaviours and thinking. In reality I was using lots of techniques and adjustment in my head, but I wanted to do it “endurance style”. It was about enjoying my progress.


Very good point. I do have to try things. For instance I know I'm content my few good friends, but I still had to meet may people in order to find them, and also part of it was just practising being around people, any learning what reciprocal friendship was all about. I will try things all the time, but I try to follow my own lead as much as possible. I know I'm not perfect, but I feel less bad about the things I still haven't achieve, and this has made me more likely to achieve them. One thing that is not in doubt is my determination and motivation, which is as high as it has ever been. Toad’s is in a poor health, on a ventilator. If it is down to depression then possibly the solution is it is not all about talking it.


I'm not one to give out intellectual credit willy nilly But, seriously I despise "expertism" which is a disease that that is rife in the mental health field and really bad in ASD. So naturally I'm going to push the critical thinking angle hard, because questioning your "fundamental" beliefs really important and what Toad needs to do too.


There is a lot for Toad to take on board. If he were to try all of the solutions put forward he would be a very confused bunny indeed. That is because there is a lack of a cohesive strategy, and lack of knowledge of the nature of the problem(s). This is why he can't rely only on solution by proxy, he has to have some knowledge of a problem solving approach, in order to devise appropriate strategies modelled on him. I also think there is a lot of behaviour stuff being put forward, but the cognitive side is lacking.

Anyway I have to go to bead now, and I haven’t even mentioned my wall analogy…

I promise to answer your previous questions tomorrow.

I never whine about life being unfair - I accepted injustice as routine a long time ago. Those offering advice are, indeed, coming up with some changes that AS guys could make to become more successful in their quest for a GF. What I resent is these changes being sold as "self-improvement".
The changes I hear recommended are enormously burdensome and difficult for some of us to sustain. And they very much amount to projecting a false image, or becoming someone we are not. As a pragmatist, I understand that these changes are likely to increase my chances with women. Therange keeps harping on how all of the hand-wringing in here is unattractive to women. Of course it is, we're not stupid. We need you to stop underestimating the cost to our sanity of adopting the techniques you recommend. You're not selling snake oil, but some of us cannot afford the cost of your medicine. And we resent needing your medicine to become more acceptable to women. I know nothing will change as a result of sitting here moping, but this forum is for venting as well as practical solutions. Just shrug and let us vent.

dtoxic, i don't know why you're taking this so personally. you said you've tried some of the steps listed and they didn't work out for you. at least you tried. and also, i don't see you complaining much on here anyway or high-jacking threads like toad tends to do and another poster who will whine to the mods if i address him by name. how would you like it if you made a post, and someone came in and either changed the subject and put the focus entirely on them, or applied the subject to themselves and put the focus entirely on them? that's what toad and others do.

i commend toad for going to therapy today. when several of us have suggested it for him, it was not an insult, it's because a therapist can do more for him than any single one of us on here can.

as for your comments about "the system"...i used to think just like you, and i also get frustrated sometimes because i'm sex-less. but i also realize that my life could be a whole lot worse. and i still stand by the fact that if you want something bad enough, you will take the steps to accomplish it. do i think it's unfair that something as natural as male/female relationships and sex are so hard to come by for most guys? of course i do. but whining about it incessantly (not saying you are, but others have, including my self months ago on the love and dating forum) does no good.

Please, I'm sorry, but you do realise that we are aspies giving advice here and really have the same problems to deal with too. The pity party wont work with me.

The only difference between me and Tim Tex is I have made a huge effort to minimise my unattractive traits. Its not easy but its do-able.

Hmm. I'm not really taking this personally, I just have strong opinions and speak them. I guess the first thing I should do is say that if you have a problem with the way a few certain people interact with you on this forum, I understand that and am not defending their behavior on that front. My only interest is to talk about the topic. I think I'll start speaking just for myself and stop saying "we" (meaning all the frustrated lonely guys).

Venting in and of itself isn't bad. We all do it. But when it's 99% percent of the things the person posts, it gets to be a bit old. I'm glad, however, that Toad has at least taken the biggest step and walked into a therapist's office. I just hope that if his doctor says something he doesn't like, he doesn't walk out and gives him or her a chance.

I have a lot of respect for Toad for trying to improve his life and fix his problems rather than just venting here (which essentally does nothing,) and feeling sorry for himself.

No pity party here. I am trying to clear up what I feel are some posters' misconceptions about the situation a lot of aspie guys find themselves in.
I'm going to be really embarassed if I'm wrong, and I apologize if I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that you are female. If so, I'm sorry but aspie or not, you are not qualified to talk about what men are feeling and thinking about this topic, just as I am not qualified to speak for women. I am interested in the female perspective in general - since I understand women so poorly, I need all the input I can get - but the situation is very different with the genders reversed.

So you just assume women have an easier time and don't have the right to make suggestions to people? I have had terrible luck with dating and interacting with men in my life.

Id better shut up, I'm not qualified to have an opinion on serial moaners who don't even try, even if they're the same issues regardless of gender.

Whoa there, tiger.
I think dtoxic meant that there's some specific emotional gymnastics that men tend to do which women don't(they have different floor routines). Or that there's a certain element of the male 'psyche' that simply can't be fully understood except by a man(and presumably vice-versa).

How much weight one puts on that difference is up to them....

I don't think you oughta take it as a sexist claim,though, hale_bopp. In this case, it's simply an acknowledgment of some subtle intrinsic differences.

....That said I don't quite agree with him, hehe.

If I say that "Do you like the Simpsons and South Park?" really means "Hey, wanna come to my place and fornicate?", would that improve anything?