Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

Post Reply New Topic

i can't emphasize enough that i never, ever walked away with no explanation given. i would talk as long as a person needed to in order to support them in the breakup, and would revisit the situation later on if a person wanted to - even months later. i even fielded questions through a third party a couple of times.

i still cared for them as friends (even if the friendship could not survive the breakup) and would not have left them hanging. but that does not mean that they ever accepted the reasons, which is what i think is at issue in this thread. no reason is ever good enough if a person doesn't want the relationship to be over.

what suddenly changed was my feelings (or perhaps my awareness of the feelings, as Sallamandrina pointed out). that doesn't mean i would abandon somebody without ever talking to them again. i just wouldn't live a lie, either.

Ok, I don't recall you specifically saying so. It is my fault that I tend to need things spelt out directly.



I think what I and others have had difficulty with is very vague explanations, or even worse, none at all. If you have provided one, all well and good, and you couldn't possibly do any more. I cannot speak for others, but the fact that the other person finishes with you is evidence that the relationship is concluded. There is no other logical way forward, so I have no problem letting go, but I will still be troubled if I don't understand where it all went wrong.

However, I do not agree with the assertion earlier in the thread (and I can't be bothered to look up by whom) that the dumper is being kind by not providing the full explanation. I'd be upset enough already by being dumped, so I really couldn't be upset any more by being told the full truth.

No, I didn't think so. I was including you among those NOT taking the "other side" and adamantly defending the right to dump and run--sorry if that was confusing.

~Kate

Ah, thank you - I appreciate you seeing I'm not taking sides. I have a feeling there's so much miscommunication in this thread and I'm not at all sure I managed to express my own ideas that well either.

I made the mistake of including both those who agreed with me and those who didn't express either agreement or disagreement. I was simply stating that most people (with those few exceptions) seemed to agree that it was okay to dump and run and there were a few who didn't express that.

~Kate

Well, I suggest you have two options: 1) Send your ex an email containing the information bolded above. It explains your perspective very succinctly, and may help him understand why it is so important that he provide a reason for the break-up. 2) Learn to deal with having incomplete data. I'm assuming you don't have complete data in every situation, so you must be able to cope with it to some extent.

Let's put it this way: if you send your ex the information above (which explains your need quite clearly) and he still refuses to provide an explanation, then you'll have more data than you have right now - you'll know he's a selfish jerk (which should make it easier to walk away).

OP, accepting that people can't or won't change is not a defeatist attitude - it's a healthy perspective. You cannot change another person against his/her will. It is simply not possible - even when the change may be better for them in the long run.

While you're in a relationship with person-you-want-to-change, you may be able to provide consequences for "bad" behavior. You can refuse to be around them when they're drinking/using; you can refuse to give them money that might be spent supporting a bad habit; you can choose not to enable them. But when the relationship is over, so is your ability to influence that person. Case closed, end of story.

And while you have the ability to influence your partner's behavior within the context of a relationship, you still cannot change a person against his/her will. Did you ever wonder why 12-Step programs don't advertise? Because they know one very important fact about getting addicts to give up their addictions: it has to be their choice - the addict has to seek out the program. They realize that people only change when they want to change.

So you have a choice to make: you can put your energy into changing yourself (into someone who can accept the explanations offered for the break-up, and work on your own healing); or you can put your energy into thinking of ways to try to change your ex-partner. A lot of people in your position will likely choose the latter, simply because it's easier to focus on solving someone else's problems than it is to focus on your own. But that's an incredibly self-defeating approach.

Huh?

I thought this is what I've been trying to say. This is the ethical way of dealing with it. But she certainly short-changed me for the "talk as long as needed" and "revisited the situation later." And of course, this happened after she said that she would remain friends, and she would reply if I wrote.

and she didn't, so she is perhaps a less kind or caring person than you had hoped, which is not changeable at this stage. what she did may have been wrong, but all you can change is how you feel about it.

I certainly hope nobody has ever gotten the idea that I would want to change her against her will. I've been talking about ethics here and forcing someone to do anything.

But even people in 12 step programs enter these programs when they see that using their free will in any other manner will have dire consequences (such as going jail, losing a job, straining and even severing friendships and family relationships). I believe the free will can be educated in order to make good decisions, and about what consequences may lie ahead.

"which is not changeable at this stage"

Do you know that for certain, or are you just pretty sure?

I think I also had the same problem, not reading her and miscommunicating. But in my case, I think it worked both ways.

her character, her reaction, her personality, her inability to treat you the way you might deserve, anything at all really. none of it can be changed now, by you.

absolutely certain. if she wants to change, she will change on her own (or with a current partner) and it will have nothing to do with you or your past relationship.

After reading through all these posts that everyone has written, I am now more confused than ever. I hope people have come to see that what I really am doing is not stalking, although I can see how people have that perception. Am I a creep? No, but some might jump to that conclusion. Am I obsessed? Maybe, but I'm far from the only person here with obsession issues. Still, I am talking about it.

Yes, I think people are starting to see that she has her own issues, and to a point that she has balked on responsibility. But I am told over and over that I can do absolutely nothing about it and I should not even try. That even trying through gentle persuasion would be a tremendous violation of her rights. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying that.

No matter what anyone says, I can't stand around and watch this go on. I have to do something. I want to try calling her. In fact, I tried getting my courage up last night. Don't you people see? That's what this is really about. It is about my ability to take charge, for me to say, "Dammit, I deserve a fair shake." It's about a child who grew up as the "different" kid, who was always being told to suck it up, get over it, and life's not fair. Believe me, there are enough people here that have gone through the same thing that they have come to believe that expecting less for yourself is the norm. You never learn courage when you go through that.

No one has ever said to me, "Go get 'em, Slugger." Look, I'm not expecting to hit a home run. I just want to get the ball out of the infield, give myself a chance. But rather than giving me advice like whether to swing a curve or a slider, or wait for a fastball, the only real advice I am getting is "retire from the game."

Persistence and tenacity, once chivalrous, are no longer revered qualities. Anyone who acts in this manner seems to be automatically branded a stalker. But this is how society overreacts. They assume someone or a situation is harmful without having all the facts. This is how she overreacted and this is how so many have overreacted.

I'm grabbing a bat and I'm stepping to the plat. Please let me have this chance without condemning me. Please have some faith in me. Please trust me a bit.

WeirdPig, I have every sympathy with your situation. It's a sh*tty place to be and I've been there, and I'm totally on your side with regards to how you feel. I've already made my feelings clear about those who dump and run...

But, at this late stage I think you'd be making a mistake in trying to pursue this any further. Once again, I know because I've been there. The hurt goes on, but it is very unlikely that you will be able to get anything positive out of further attempts at communication.

For whatever reason she has gone. Maybe one day she will think about her conduct and reach out to you (but I wouldn't count on it). All you will do now is make her more resentful and further reinforce her ideas that splitting up was for the best, whilst probably making yourself more angry and hurt. It's a sad fact, but in my experience you can never win them back once relations have deteriorated to this point, and it would never be the same anyway if you could.

My final piece of advice; If you really feel you must give it one last shot - please don't call her! Send a text asking if she would speak to you if you call her. If she answers no, or no answer at all you must let this rest.

All the best.

Well, I made my final attempt at contact on Monday, and I got nowhere, so I'm done. I don't know how I'll get over him, or when the pain will stop, but he'll get left alone.



~Kate