Growing up and done with bad boys

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And to recap my arguement:

Women aren't attracted to bad boys. It's more complicated.

Men who have qualities of being exploitative and abusive have likely had these personality traits ingrained in them---so in order for these men to function in society they have to develop numerous manipulation skills and the ability to hide their "badness." Otherwise people would kick them to the curb immediately and they wouldn't be able to exploit anyone.

Many of them might be on the spectrum of psychopathy or sociopathy. Faulting a woman who gets taken by a skilled psychopath is like faulting Jeffery Dahmer's neighbors for thinking he was a nice guy, or his murder victims for being "attracted" to serial killers.

It's just not about that. It's that he was an excellent manipulator and was able to manipulate everyone.

It's possible that the women who stay with bad boys or repeat relationships with them have been abused or exploited in their childhoods, so they normalize that behavior. But that's far from "being attracted to" bad boys. What's attractive about misogyny and exploitation?

I think its more likely, that "bad boys" have a collection of traits that certain women like, assertive, confident, self-assured, alpha qualities etc, than they are all sociopath or manipulators.

i swear theres got to be a f***ing echo around here

But they managed to get laid with desired women. Finding out what they have in common is one step towards getting laid with desired women.

So? Getting laid isn't that difficult. I've got several guy friends who figured that out by now and they ge the girls they want quite often.



I knew a 'nice guy' who liked drinking, sports, was highly-educated, and relatively socially capable. But women didn't like him at all, because he was too easy-going. A pacifist. Women hate practical pacifists. He complained that 'women only like jerks'. Some women say they like pacifists - but only the type that's against theoretical, abstract wars. When it's about actual violent situations, he should take charge and use any type of violence necessary. That, like most things in nice guy lore, is evolutionary - he should be able to defend her and their offspring. You can be a pacifist, but you can't be a coward when things get beyond abstract.

In effect, women saying they like 'a pacifist' are simply saying "I want to hear my political opinion in a deeper voice, but don't you dare making that a three-dimensional thing."

Well nobody is going to stay with a guy (or a girl for that matter) who just stands there and does nothing if someone is attacking her or their children! Being a pacifist by not wanting to go to war or walking away from fights when possible is one thing, but a guy who just stands there and sees a woman or a child being abused and does nothing about i is scum and doesn't deserve to find a date or any happiness in life. Nobody should just stand there and not help defend someone else who needs the help at the time. There is a difference between being a pacifist and a coward.



Welcome to my world.

Those bad boys that I was talking about are usually pretty dirty, or are missing teeth, or do stupid things like bring their best friend on a date or take their date to the VFW for an evening of beer drinking and to watch them play pool. There are reasons when people can't get a date. It's not all that often that the person who can't get a date can't do something to change their situation or make themselves more attractive to the women they are attracted to.



Personally, I don't - but these stereotypes make the discussion a lot easier. It means I don't have to spend three-quarters of a page fine-tuning and nuancing everything in every post I make.



It's not that black-and-white. However, a pattern I've noticed is that the moment women see their current path has a dead end isn't the moment they act upon that knowledge. They keep chasing men who are exciting, because they're not old enough to worry yet. The moment they start changing their actions is the moment they're really getting too old for it. The moment they'd be seen for someone's mother while smoking pot with him. At that moment, I think they're damaged goods and shouldn't have too many demands. "Settle for a poet"? At that moment in time, a lot of them would be lucky to find anyone literate willing to settle for them. The wealthy, tall and handsome poets, by the time a woman reaches 30, will lose interest and prefer her younger sister. That's evolution - men look for the best mother for their children - one who has a long life ahead, and is physically attractive and capable of giving birth.

Also, their idea of excitement and fun changes as they get older. What was exciting to me when I was 21 isn't exciting at all to me now that I'm 48. My best friend is about my age, still loves bad boys and still dates bad boys in their early to mid 20's. She's old enough to be their mother. She also has no trouble going out with whatever guy she likes at the time. Is she "damaged goods"? Oh, she's got issues so probably. But her issues don't include bitterness and self righteous arrogance toward anyone who has achieved things that she's wanted to achieve but hasn't been able to.



Translation into stereotype: whore it out, then find someone desperate enough with more than a semi-decent living standard. I'm disinterested in women who have had too many sexual partners, and there's no chance in hell I'd consider dating a woman if it meant taking care of, or providing for, another man's children. That's evolutionary defeat. I'd prefer staying alone until I'm 40 and wealthy, then getting into the market for women in their 20s.

Why do you feel the need to assume that bad boys are all manipulators, or good manipulators. Let alone on the spectrum of psychopathy? I've seen no evidence to back this conclusion unless you take the word of the people on lovefraud. Also the leap from "might be on the spectrum" to "skilled sociopath" is something you neglected to lay the groundwork for.

I think its more likely, that "bad boys" have a collection of traits that certain women like, assertive, confident, self-assured, alpha qualities etc, than they are all sociopaths or manipulators. Secondly, it's not about misogyny and exploitation, its about as I said, confidence, the fact that the man expects the woman to qualify herself to him (opposite of normal social protocol), isn't needy and so on.

And there really isn't any evidence that "bad boys" tend to be closer to psychopaths than NTs, except by my definition--as I define bad boys as exploitive and lacking in care or regard for the harm they cause--and those qualities are also found in diagnosed psychopaths.

If people stopped coming up with rationalizations to avoid the truth, I wouldn't have to repeat myself.

http://suite101.com/article/why-are-bad ... er-a372935 is interesting.

As is http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles ... he-bad-boy

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/val ... e-assholes is very interesting.

In that case, thank you for participating and goodbye. No point in having a discussion when you've defined the term according to your conclusion already.

There are plenty of bad boys that can find partners and there are plenty of nice guys/geeks/whatever that can find partners.
Why? they tried to work on themselves and they didnt blame the rest of the world for their own problems.

So my question to anyone on this thread that feels unwanted is: what are you doing to work on yourself?.

Attitude goes a long way and your attitude is showing through your posts.

Exactly---there's no point in arguing about "bad boys" if we have different definitions of them. You seem to identify them as having alpha male qualities whereas I, as a rule of thumb, identify them as having psychopath qualities. (edit--I should say, certain psychopathic qualities like the habit to exploit and lack of regard for others--and/or qualities commonly found in domestic abusers like rigid misogynistic views).

It's like comparing apples to pears. But I'll still read your articles.

There are plenty of bad boys that can find partners and there are plenty of nice guys/geeks/whatever that can find partners.
Why? they tried to work on themselves and they didnt blame the rest of the world for their own problems.

How is this relevant to this thread in any way?
I used to be avoided by people now girls are approaching me at the subway/other places(now I just need to work on being approached by those that are about my age instead of 16). Last week I was half sleep at the city centre and I was approached by someone who spoke a language I didnt understand, eventually I figured out what they were asking and I replied accordingly. They could have asked anyone else but they saw that I was going to be willing to help even though I didnt understand them at the time and I was half sleep ...

Good point right here, the misogyny and bitterness is strong in this thread.

Expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with you because you have been nice or a shoulder to cry on and using kindness as a means of manipulation is no different than a bad boy using aggression to manipulate a woman. The only difference is that the bad boy is more direct, upfront and persistent about it instead of being indiscreet. Some people need to take responsibility and make changes instead of blaming women for their problems.

Becoming more popular and getting invited to more parties is easier said than done.

Expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with you because you have been nice or a shoulder to cry on and using kindness as a means of manipulation is no different than a bad boy using aggression to manipulate a woman. The only difference is that the bad boy is more direct, upfront and persistent about it instead of being indiscreet. Some people need to take responsibility and make changes instead of blaming women for their problems.

There are plenty of bad boys that can find partners and there are plenty of nice guys/geeks/whatever that can find partners.
Why? they tried to work on themselves and they didnt blame the rest of the world for their own problems.

So my question to anyone on this thread that feels unwanted is: what are you doing to work on yourself?

Good point right here, the misogyny and bitterness is strong in this thread.

Expecting a woman to feel obliged to have sex with you because you have been nice or a shoulder to cry on and using kindness as a means of manipulation is no different than a bad boy using aggression to manipulate a woman. The only difference is that the bad boy is more direct, upfront and persistent about it instead of being indiscreet. Some people need to take responsibility and make changes instead of blaming women for their problems.