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Girl dates me for being nice to her: Matrix glitch report.

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Vectorspace
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04 Oct 2013, 6:38 am

Is it just me, or don't such activities usually require the participation of two people?

If you try to kiss her and she says "no" and pushes you away, and you go on anyway, that's sexual assault by the legal definition. You don't need relationship experience to tell that.



The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Oct 2013, 6:43 am

Vectorspace wrote:
Is it just me, or don't such activities usually require the participation of two people?

If you try to kiss her and she says "no" and pushes you away, and you go on anyway, that's sexual assault by the legal definition. You don't need relationship experience to tell that.


He's saying that if she's saying ''no" while she's smiling and doing flirty body language then this no is a yes.
It could be, but it's risky, especially for aspie guys.

It could she means "not yet you naughty", "not now" or "later" - there's no guarantee it's a yes.



appletheclown
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04 Oct 2013, 6:51 am

This is dumb. If a lady says no, I would think she means no. If she gets mad about it, I'd probably play off of that and tease her or something. If there is back and forth however, that would be cool. As in we both go after each other.

"Hey jerk. you were supposed to keep after me, now I don't have a date to the concert!"
"Well looks like someone still can't stand to be without me, such a lovely lady as you!"
"So you are just gonna tease me?"
"No I got vip tickets, 2 of them!"
"For me and you?! Well ok I forgive you....I think."


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04 Oct 2013, 6:57 am

After 12+ pages of this thread, OP, you'd better make sure that you won't get friend or creepzoned in the process, because that would be not good, at all.

Sorry to be blunt, but, you know.



Vectorspace
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04 Oct 2013, 6:57 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Vectorspace wrote:
Is it just me, or don't such activities usually require the participation of two people?

If you try to kiss her and she says "no" and pushes you away, and you go on anyway, that's sexual assault by the legal definition. You don't need relationship experience to tell that.

He's saying that if she's saying ''no" while she's smiling and doing flirty body language then this no is a yes.
It could be, but it's risky, especially for aspie guys.

It could she means "not yet you naughty", "not now" or "later" - there's no guarantee it's a yes.

OK, I see. Like, in OP's case, if they have discussed the nature of their relationship in a theoretical manner, then it might be appropriate to try something that was previously excluded, always observing and respecting her reactions. It may still ruin the relationship, though.

But if she says "no" as an immediate response to your action, then that's clearly a "no", and I assume that in most countries, judges have a similar opinion.



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04 Oct 2013, 7:48 am

It is possible that some women will say "no" and mean "yes" but personally I've never missed out on an opportunity with somebody like that because when women have wanted to hook up with me they give me signals.

I don't see how being able to read when a woman does that makes you more of a man, and frankly I wouldn't appreciate the trickery and games involved with hooking up with them. If somebody likes you than why would they want to make things hard on you or tricky for you? That's what I don't understand.



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04 Oct 2013, 8:42 am

lost561 wrote:
If somebody likes you than why would they want to make things hard on you or tricky for you? That's what I don't understand.


Because they like you but they feel they "shouldn't" be doing it for whatever reason. I think it's guilt. The point is, if the guilt is too strong then she won't consent. But she should make it clear whether she wants this or doesn't. Men can't read minds, and it's unfair to mess people about that way.

The same goes for wanting rape fantasy scenarios played out with absolutely no communication beforehand. That terrified me.



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04 Oct 2013, 8:43 am

Vectorspace wrote:
But if she says "no" as an immediate response to your action, then that's clearly a "no", and I assume that in most countries, judges have a similar opinion.


If it was me, I'd query it in a flirty way. If she said "no" with greater seriousness, I'd stop. If she was evasively flirty, I'd ask her in a serious tone. The answer afterwards would depend on what I did.

It's best either way. But I'd want to make sure.



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04 Oct 2013, 8:50 am

LeLetch wrote:
Moral? Don't be friends with D & D nerds, they all marry feminists.


There's a difference between being submissive in bed and even real life (whilst being able to have your own needs, thoughts, orders and requirements met) and being indecisive, weak, and simply dominated by a woman. Very few people respect a partner that they can completely dominate (and I don't mean in a 24/7 BDSM way).



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04 Oct 2013, 9:34 am

Vectorspace wrote:
Ctrl_F4 wrote:
Vectorspace wrote:
Though I do not fulfill your criteria, what about this commonplace? If she likes you and wants to do <whatever> with you, she will eventually say "yes"? If she decides to break up with you because you actually interpret her "no" as a "no", you might have missed an opportunity to get laid, but I have some reason to doubt that a relationship in which people don't tell each other what they want can be very stable.

You won't have reason to doubt if you have experience. In fact, if a woman gives you "token resistance," and you back off, she will RESENT you for it. She will resent you for not taking things all the way when she put herself out there and you failed to get her VERY OBVIOUS hints that she doesn't truly mean "no." She'll feel like crap thinking you were a real man who understands women, and will now feel like a bad judge of character, which is a huge blow to her ego. This means women who will suddenly stop returning your calls. Don't be mad at me--I'm just the messenger. That's just how NT women (again, I have no sexual experience with aspie women) are like.

Fine. If she wants a player, she must look for someone other than me.


Exactley. If she breaks things off with a dude because he actually respected her and he took her "no" seriously, than she is not a good match for him in the first place.

It doesn't sound like this is the type of girl to play those kind of games anyway. I'm pretty sure they are quite rare actually despite what he is claiming.



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04 Oct 2013, 9:39 am

Geekonychus wrote:
It doesn't sound like this is the type of girl to play those kind of games anyway. I'm pretty sure they are quite rare actually despite what he is claiming.

Some TV series try to make us believe that this is the default case... But they also suggest that most relationships evolve from drunk sex.



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04 Oct 2013, 10:03 am

Geekonychus wrote:
Exactley. If she breaks things off with a dude because he actually respected her and he took her "no" seriously, than she is not a good match for him in the first place.


Not necessarily. It depends on the nature of the 'no', and how it's responded to. I would want to query it, but simply stopping altogether and apologising profusely the moment you hear a giggly "we shouldn't be doing this" whilst things are hot and steamy and she is continuing to rub you up and down is definitely not the answer either. The idea is to question it. A lot depends on body language and tone of voice as to the immediate action you take.

That said, if a woman freezes up completely, that's a major clue to stop what you're doing.



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04 Oct 2013, 10:30 am

Tequila wrote:
That said, if a woman freezes up completely, that's a major clue to stop what you're doing.


.........or if she f*****g says NO. I seriously can't believe this is still a thing.......



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04 Oct 2013, 10:40 am

Geekonychus wrote:
.........or if she f***ing says NO. I seriously can't believe this is still a thing.......


Like I said, I would stop and ask depending on the nature of the 'no', as some women may flirtatiously say it when they mean something else - perhaps "a little later" or "not right now" or "slow down a bit" or perhaps it's even meant sarcastically (it is possible for this to happen). I often use sarcastic language when someone asks me if I want something (and they know I do and have been wanting it for ages) and I say stuff like "well, OF COURSE NOT!" with a huge smile.

If it sounded in any way serious, I'd of course stop immediately and either ask or move the hell away.



Last edited by Tequila on 04 Oct 2013, 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Vectorspace
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04 Oct 2013, 10:42 am

"We shouldn't be doing this" is ambiguous. The word "no" isn't.



Tequila
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04 Oct 2013, 10:43 am

Vectorspace wrote:
The word "no" isn't.


Depending on the way it's said, it can be. That's the problem.