Blog post on the epidemic of forced celibacy in males
by the way, being laughed at after rejection is not the same as being laughed at after rape. rejection, no matter how severe, does not cause physical harm or lead to PTSD. so your comparison is not balanced.
...and women get rejected as well, not just men.
No, not all women behave like that. But that set of attitudes shows up in lots of young women, and it makes me sick.
My comparison is extreme, I guess, and thanks for not exploding in a crapstorm for it. But I think it is balanced. I've read many of your posts and you're very intelligent, but you have an extremely annoying incapacity to understand the sheer excruciating frustration and sense of worthlessness a man feels when he "can't get laid" or is "involuntarily celibate" or whatever not for a few weeks, or a few months, but like twenty five years. A great example of this is your dogged insistence on the evil of prostitution, while you fail or refuse to grasp that prostitutes are the only damn way many men can know even a close facsimile of an attractive woman's loving affection.
While you fascinatedly dissect the minutiae of how a couple's sex drives can create conflict or how most of your hookups have been outside the realm of a relationship, there are way too many good-hearted, hard working, non-physically-repulsive men who would give half of their paycheck just to kiss and grope you, and feel wanted by someone who doesn't make them want to vomit. You're basically a fat man preaching the evils of gluttony to a bunch of people dying of starvation.
I'm not comparing rape to rejection, I'm comparing it to the devastation of a lifetime of rejection, something that I daresay must in all fairness be explained to you. I don't know if that offends you, but it's probably true. I'm offended by almost everything that comes out of people's mouths when they talk about the sex and relationships they take so infinitely for granted, but I know it's just how things are.
All that rejection absolutely can and does lead to PTSD, anxiety disorders, depression, suicide, and horrendous crimes. Don't underestimate it just because you haven't experienced it. Admitting this is kind of against the male unspoken code for some reason, but there it is.
Yeah, women get rejected, but the average fat girl gets laid a lot more than me!
What is it that you think you are missing out on?
.
I may find that first sentence to be unpleasantly true, but at least I'd know they aren't people I'd enjoy being around.
I'm missing out on having sex with attractive members of the opposite sex like everyone else does, just to know I can. Escorts would be helpful. I also miss that giddy opium-feeling of mutual attraction with a woman who I think is cool, like smart and weird and arty. I just want what I so bitterly missed as a younger adult, and I still think I can get it if I just try hard enough.
i've been rejected many, many times. even mocked and slandered and teased. to me it's always been a matter of odds. sometimes i got rejected, and other times i was successful. i'm not some beautiful woman who sat back and had men come to me. i had to work at it. i didn't consider myself entitled to anything at all - i knew that if i wanted to have men to connect with, i had to improve things about myself first. and it's an ongoing process. i couldn't keep a good relationship with my husband if i took anything for granted.
my issue with prostitution is based on both a humanitarian/ethical understanding, and also the experiences of several friends and family members who worked the job (one of whom died while in the trade). just like you don't think i can understand your perspective, i don't think you can understand my perspective on this. perhaps you are too wrapped up in your own sexual desires to comprehend that prostitution destroys lives, whether the trade is legal or illegal.
but i wouldn't just argue about prostitution if i was only basing my perspective on intimate knowledge... i'm afraid, when it comes to this matter, i have the facts on my side. and i won't stop presenting them.
[edited for the usual horrible spelling]
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Last edited by hyperlexian on 16 Sep 2010, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And you had to watch her struggle many, many years to get over the traumatizing experience. She attempts suicide a couple times. Iit was difficult for you and your friends to maintain respect for a woman weak enough to do such a thing, but you and your social circle tolerated it.
That'd piss you off pretty good, wouldn't it? I think it would be a Herculean effort for you to NOT hate men if they did something like that to you or someone you cared about. And I understand that.
I'm not irrational, and I'm not a misogynist. But I do hate people who hurt others a lot, and some guy's lives are ruined because they're always rejected for reasons that make no sense to them. Do women spell out what the men are doing wrong in an act of tough love? No: they mock them, seek to destroy their hopes of success, and hold them in total contempt for what amounts to not possessing the peculiar pattern of responses you like, regardless of whether the guy has a good heart on him.
What a thoroughly disgusting attempt at analogy.
Agreed. I think I understand the poster's attempt to show how both characters felt pain, but there's a huge difference between not being able to get a date and being gang raped. It's not a good comparison at all as the two are competely different scenarios and it is entirely possible to have empathy/sympathy for one and not the other without being a 'feminist troll' or biased towards one gender.
If the scenarios were reversed, I would feel a hell of a lot more sorry for a guy who was raped than a woman who just couldn't keep a relationship, so this isn't a case of blatent sexism.
And if they somehow managed not to be bitter about it all, that would make them more attractive to the opposite sex, would it? I don't think so!
And to think that fifty years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. Why? Because they weren't being brainwashed, like they are now.
This thread should make clear to men like Nostromos and Slipperman how hopeless it is to expect any understanding from women or feminist men. You are wasting time trying to explain what drove Sodini over the edge to such people, but you do understand. I would like to say more but this is a heavily censored forum where I am not free to express my views. I recommend that open minded men look elsewhere, to less censored places, to find their answers. I would be glad to give suggestions privately. My email is [email protected] .
One other point:
No one responded to this and I can't fully respond either because of the censorship here, but I will just say that the optimal male from a darwinian perspective in a feminist society is a stupid immoral jerk, and this is precisely what women in feminist societies are choosing "in the dark cobwebby sections of their minds" that even they themselves cannot see consciously.
And if they somehow managed not to be bitter about it all, that would make them more attractive to the opposite sex, would it? I don't think so!
again i do not know how other women work with this. there is no guarantee in this world.
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And to think that fifty years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. Why? Because they weren't being brainwashed, like they are now.
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HopeGrows
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If there's one thing I hope any guy who identifies with anything about George Sodini realizes, it's this: he never learned a f#cking thing.
I think that's worth repeating: he never learned a f#cking thing. He was not a man gifted with introspection; he did not allow his experiences with women to alter his approach to dating. Shortly before he slaughtered a bunch of innocent women - women who were wives, mothers, girlfriends, daughters, sisters - he still stubbornly maintained he was entitled to snag a hot young thing. George Sodini could have gotten laid - if he'd realized that his problem was much deeper than anything some BS PUA "bible" could resolve - and if he'd done something about those problems.
Even a few days before the mass murder, he met a nice woman on his bus ride home from work. But the prospect of that relationship wasn't enough to keep him from indulging his murderous rage against women who did nothing more than join the same health club. Instead, he resigned himself to the idea that any relationship with her would end as all those had before. So what's wrong with this picture? Well, to my mind, it's the part where he failed to assess what he could do differently in order to change the outcome. Instead, he chose to blame his failure on every woman on the planet.
I hope that lesson isn't lost on any guy reading this thread, or reading this @sshole's stupid blog. If you can't get a date, be willing to make some substantial changes in your life. Be prepared to do things you don't want to do. Get a therapist, talk to a trusted NT friend/relative, ask for advice, and listen to what you're told. Don't blame, don't judge, don't insult, don't get defensive - just freaking listen. And then get help to come up with a plan to make the changes you need to make.
If you can get a date, but can't make a relationship work, figure out what you're doing wrong (that means you have to be willing to accept that you're doing something wrong). Get a therapist, work out your childhood issues, your mommy issues, your bad relationship issues. Be honest. Realize that admitting your faults and/or weaknesses (and addressing them) actually makes you a stronger man.
And finally, you need to understand that women can sense anger - even during a brief encounter with a stranger. Someone lamented earlier in this thread how frustrating it is that women (stranger or not) don't provide constructive feedback when rejecting a man's advances. Yes, it would be great if women were willing to do that. It would be great if we lived in a society that supported women in that way. But we don't. Maybe you would politely thank a woman who offered such feedback, but most men wouldn't. Most men would call her a b***h, a dyke, ugly, etc., and stagger drunkenly away. And some men would add that feedback to a slow-burning bonfire of rage, and target that woman....just the way George Sodini targeted his victims. We've talked about this before, guys. A woman is not going to risk her safety in order to help some random guy improve his chances of getting a date. It's not fair, but accept it and move on, cause it's not going to change. At the very least, commit to working on resolving whatever anger issues you have toward women because of previous rejections. Cause if you're lucky enough to find a woman who's willing to give you a shot, you don't want to scare her away by raging at her because she's not capable of healing your emotional wounds.
George Sodini destroyed a lot of lives, all because he wasn't willing to take a hard look at himself and take responsibility for his own mistakes - and he still didn't get laid. I certainly hope he's burning in hell for being such a selfish coward.
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The first of those two things. And back then, it wasn't just the ones who were either rich or athletic who were in relationships, like it pretty much is today.
Yet they lust after the ones that are actually likely to beat them. Talk about double standards. They're risking their safety anyway, obviously - and I have zero sympathy for that.
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No one responded to this and I can't fully respond either because of the censorship here, but I will just say that the optimal male from a darwinian perspective in a feminist society is a stupid immoral jerk, and this is precisely what women in feminist societies are choosing "in the dark cobwebby sections of their minds" that even they themselves cannot see consciously.
Laughable convoluted "logic" from men who can't get dates:
"She just can't see how GOOD I am compared to all those other guys. That's why she rejected me. It's HER fault I'm alone."
I'm not even going to TOUCH you presuming to know the minds of millions of women whom you don't even think deserve equal rights with men.
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HopeGrows
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Yet they lust after the ones that are actually likely to beat them. Talk about double standards. They're risking their safety anyway, obviously - and I have zero sympathy for that.
Really? Every woman wants someone who will beat them? That's absolutely ridiculous. Look, you can stay stuck in thinking like that and keep beating your head against the wall, or you can accept reality for what it is and figure out how to solve the problem some other way (and I suggested quite a few alternative methods). One thing is certain: if you don't change your approach, you won't change your results, either. Your choice.
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What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful...
this is a very cold-blooded reality, but that is just par for the hellworld we live in.
mmmyeahhh... You're right actually. I should have said "the resources to protect, provide for, and sexually pleasure a woman who he finds attractive".
Lonermutant, I reallllly wish I had your asexuality and indifference to human acceptance.
to the point where you argue for the "right" to rent a woman's body for a few hours
and THEN call the exchange "loving" and "affectionate".
You seem to think that if you were born without legs, you have some "right" to rent fake ones for an hour at a time to feel like everyone else.
You're not listening to me. Calm down and try to imagine growing up with a father that hated you, someone you were never good enough for no matter how hard you tried, and you can't get away from him. Would you have the right to rent one that loved you, that made you feel like a person who had a right to exist? It's just as much about self-esteem as it is about sex.
Yeah, because you can't imagine what the latter is like, except replace "keep" with "get", and add "or sex" after "relationship".
Y'know something, even if it universally does, I would still defend it as I would be in jail or dead now without them. They saved me from turning out like Sodini, or at least from suicide. No one will ever want me? Accept my fate as a b***h Quasimodo? Smile with compassion on those who crushed me and will continue to crush me every chance they get, and will probably have happy, fulfilled lives? And all in the soup of my blast-furnace young adult hormones?
Oh HELL no! Not in a million years!
What this all boils down to, I know now, is that "Darwinism is a real b***h". I did what I had to do to survive and put myself back together so that I can now work my ass off for another shot at the mating game. If anyone has that big of a problem with prostitution, they should recruit attractive women to give omega males "mercy fluid extractions" and get the government to pay for it.
It took a loooooong time of processing rage before I could get to that.
Last edited by Nostromos on 17 Sep 2010, 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
HopeGrows
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It took a loooooong time of processing rage before I could get to that.
Sorry, I'm confused by your verb tense. Are you saying it would take a long time of processing rage before you could assess what to do differently? Or are you saying you've been working on processing rage?
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What you feel is what you are and what you are is beautiful...
It took a long time to process it, I meant. Much better now, happier.
Last edited by Nostromos on 16 Sep 2010, 11:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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