Aspires and NT relationship issues

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I do really appreciate the reply...but this does not answer the fundamental questions. What does an aspie think of their friends when they are not together or talking regularly? Or do they not think of them at all? I agree that frequency of contact does not equal friendship. But it's not about frequency until the frequency becomes zero. lol The question is not about frequency, it is about trying to understand why the aspie has no DESIRE for contact of any frequency with someone they "like" and "feel comfortable" with.

Yes, I've not only heard, but have experienced the "pick up where we left off" thing. But that implies that there was close contact at some point in time, and that picked up at some later point in time, where on the in-between of those there might not have been contact, but that is usually because of something like physical separation and later getting together or something....that old saying really never meant anything related to being aspie and not having contact as a result of one half of the friendship not wanting it. When one of my female friends moved to another state, we didn't have contact as often as we used to, obviously. But when we do get together, which is only very occasionally now, we still pick up where we left off. But that is a physical barrier. That is not the same thing as if my aspie friend ignores me for a year, then all of a sudden we might run into each other and he acts as if nothing happened...that is not "picking up where we left off", that is more like, where the hell have you been for the last year and why were you ignoring me? Because over that year, there would have been pain and hurt on the part of the NT feeling unloved and unappreciated, and feeling like what you thought was a friendship was really not at all a friendship. With my female friend, there is none of that because there was a REASON we don't have as much contact as we used to. With the aspie, it is just because they don't WANT contact. Big difference. And the result is that I would feel (do feel) like, during the ignoring phase, that he never considered me a friend at all, but even if he did, was he thinking about me at all during that year? (I used a year just as an example, because, again, frequency doesn't matter as much as the point I am trying to make, it could have been 2 months, which is where I stand with my absent aspie as of now.)

I am trying to wrap my head around what people mean to an aspie and what they do want from friendship, or what friendship IS to an aspie--what they THINK about (not a definition of friendship being "someone you enjoy spending time with"--but more what do you THINK of your friend). As NTs, we feel a need to mean something to someone. If we don't believe that we actually matter to the other person, then we don't feel there is a friendship there. With an aspie, the usual signals that validate that we mean something to them are absent or lacking, or even if it is not the intention, the signals are so off the mark that they tell us the exact opposite (that this person doesn't care at all for us). So I am trying to understand how, without those things, how do we know IF an aspie cares at all for us, and even if they do, what does that actually mean to the aspie. If a friend is someone you enjoy talking to, etc., then wouldn't you want to experience that enjoyment, and therefore, wouldn't you make contact to have that enjoyment? Does the aspie think things like "I enjoy talking to that person, so I'll give them a call/message/email to see if they want to get together because I like being with them, so I want to be with them soon again."? I keep getting the feeling that this is not part of the aspie thought process, that this is an NT thing, and for an aspie it is "out of sight, out of mind" if they don't think to ask someone to do something with them that they planned to do anyway, like Anngables has said many times. But I don't know. When an aspie is not with a friend physically, do they think about their friends, and if so, what do they think about? If there is no desire for contact (messaging or otherwise) "just because I like you", what is there?

And here's another big question. If NTs have that need to mean something to someone else, I am wondering if an aspie has any such need. Does an aspie care whether another person cares for them, or does it mean anything to an aspie to know if another person cares for them or not? Does an aspie have a similar need to be needed by a particular person(s)? I am SO confused about this.

Basically, when people say you just have to adjust your expectations to carry on a friendship with an aspie, to me it seems like that is saying "you can't expect them to want or need you in their lives....because they DON'T!". I don't understand!! ! It seems like it is just saying that the aspie does not care at all for me or anyone else. So why would an NT give so much of themselves and give up so many of their own fundamental needs to maintain a friendship with someone to whom they mean nothing to? It seems that an aspie might not want to hurt another person, not because they care for that person's feelings, but because someone somewhere set a rule that you should not hurt the feelings of another person, and aspies follow rules. I am lost. I really don't understand.

I find it depressing that people are so judgemental without properly reading what I say .. . .. but I am exhausted with trying to explain to you. . . .. .and me and my friend are good . . .. . As we have been throughout this . . .. . .. .. . . . .i nearly started explaining again but it is pointless . . .. .. .

However I will say (I can't help myself) what I have learnt is that when I don't hear from my friend it is not because he doesn't want to speak to me . . .it is actually that he is worried that he has upset me and doesn't know how to put it right . .. . .. he therefore does nothing for fear of saying the wrong thing. . .. . . .now I know that I will ensure I make contact and reassure him if required after a few days silence. . . .. .. . ..

I dont know the answer. I think it depends on the individual.

I always message back unless I'm really busy.

But I don't like messaging people for no reason. I won't just text "how are you?" Because it'll be. "I'm fine how are you?" Booring. Nothing much really happens in peoples lives. I dont really care about their new sofa or whatever.

The person who messages me the most is someone I could live without. I don't even know if I like her. We're "friends" because I'm lonely and she keeps in touch, but if she stopped I wouldn't care.

Not because I'm an aspie, but i like other people more than I like her and she's kind of annoying. I'd rather be friends with other people.

I do like other people though, but they don't text me. I don't want to be that friend who bothers people when they don't really like me.

Last edited by hurtloam on 07 Oct 2017, 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yep hurtloam I've got people like that too . . .. . .anyway I hope you find a way forward with the person you do care for. . . . .

A problem I had with friendships for a long time was that I didn't know at what point they clicked over from being "someone I know" to "friend".
So it would really surprise me when people called me their friend.
A classic example was when "someone I knew" introduced me by saying, "This is my friend, Raleigh."
I immediately said, "We're not friends."
Luckily they laughed this off and I only thought later how rude and hurtful this must have sounded.
What I meant was, that person had never previously said to me, "We are friends" so in my view, we weren't.
I've come to ask, "Are we friends yet?"
Which seems to amuse people no end.

That's insightful. I'm still curious about what a friend means to an aspie. I know everyone is different, and every friendship is different, but still.

Friendship, to me, means very much the same thing as it does to an "NT."

I'll start with the question that jumped out at me, it surprises me. Aspies absolutely want to be loved and cared for. We want to have somebody in our life who misses us when we aren't around. We want somebody in our life who makes us feel like we add value to their life. We aren't antisocial, even if it seems that way. We simply can't *be* social, as much as we'd like that ability.

I know I always give answers through personal stories, but I guess that's how I communicate best. At this school I'm going to, when I was doing my prerequisites like chemistry, physics, etc., I went to a tutoring center and was frequently tutored by a guy who was trying to get into the Nursing program. As time went on, when I'd go down there to the tutoring center, I didn't need tutoring anymore but both he and I would kid with each other and became friendly.

He invited me to come to his apartment and bring my son so we'd go swimming, but I never took him up on that. Still, when we saw each other around, we'd go over and talk with each other and joke around. As recently as maybe 2 weeks ago, I was at a school event representing physical therapy, and he came over and kidded me requesting a massage that would require me to name all of the bony landmarks on the body and origin and insertion of all muscles, etc. Now I don't consider myself as somebody who has friends, but I'm not sure if that's true or not. Is this guy my friend or not? I don't know. I'd like for him to be my friend, but I don't know now I'd go about knowing for sure whether he is or not, or how I could bring us into friendship status. So I don't contact this guy, but when we see each other we are very friendly.

I think part of the issue with us Aspies is that we dislike contacting people and doing small chit chat with them because we are very poor at it. We just don't know how to do it, frankly. This is more than an unwillingness to make frequent contact with friends because we don't see a reason for it. I think that's wishful thinking on our part. It's more fundamental than that. We really don't have the social skills to do that maintenance that we are required to do in order to maintain a friendship.

I guess to me, my ideal friendship would be somebody who knows I'm autistic (I haven't told anybody). They are willing to keep that secret and yet they still are willing to be my friend. Ideally, I'd like for them to understand autism and my limitations and be understanding about them. I'd even like for them to contribute to helping me be better in social situations or being my "wing man" or whatever the terms are. I know that's wishful thinking, but you never know, it could happen.

In the mean time, I just received a google message from a Facebook friend. It was a mass message likely sent out to all of her Facebook "friends".

Here goes:

"Friends are like Balloons...once you let them go, you can't get them back, So I'm gonna Tie you to my Heart so I'll never lose you. HAPPY FRIENDSHIP DAY! Send this to all your Friends, including me if you are a great Friend!! !"

Give me a break! So it's a mass message sent out to her Facebook friends for what purpose? It's so shallow, it's so meaningless. It doesn't make me feel like she's "thinking of me", it just means she's being corny and needy. She's a nice person and I'm glad to have her as my Facebook friend and all, but I just don't understand the thought behind this.

I don't care if 12 of my friends like Amazon.com or Nike, or whatever. This is the type of stuff as Aspies can't participate in because we just don't know why it's done, or how we'd go about doing it ourselves.

P.S.

Let's see if I can match the level of corniness......

"Friendship is like a flower in blooming. If you don't water it, it will die before it's fully bloomed. Happy friendship day, WP!" I think I just made myself sick.

For the NT's that think we are unfeeling sociopaths you've got it all wrong. I know we come across that way but its not what we are feeling internally.
I'm terrible at initiating contact with people and its due to a couple of things. The first is anxiety about what to say, how to say it and how will be other person interpret it. I can sit and agonise over this train of thought and in the end, its easier (and safer) to say nothing.
The second thing is I'm not constantly thinking about who are my friends and what do I need to do to maintain that friendship. I have other things to think and worry about without overloading my brain with those kinds of thoughts.

To me a friend is someone who I can do things together with and be able to trust. How often we talk and the exchange of (to me) meaningless emotional / social gestures is irrelevant.

One of my friends said once: "The only friends that remained are those comfortable with not talking to each other for two years." I don't know why it is that way but it is that way. We are extremally lucky to have this kind of friends anyway.


I can only speak for myself. I'm very focused. If I'm focused on something, there is nothing else in my mind. When I'm focused on my work, I ask my closest friend to leave and not to disturb me. When I am focused on my spouse or children, I have no room in my mind for other relationships at this time. And when I am focused on my friend, nothing else exists for me for that time.
I hate it when some extroverts come to you, look in your eyes and start a conversation - and when you think you have their attention, focus on them and start talking, you realise they already have shifted their attention and are chatting to someone else. To me, it is extremally shallow, even insulting. Yet those are the popular ones.


Yes, we do. Just the conventinal, "natural" way of informing the other person about it is not natural for us. Like reading body language is natural and obvious to NT but confusing to an aspie. It's like speaking a foreign language. You learn the phrases, the grammar, the words and hope for the best they will be understood but it is not natural at all. Thus, following instructions if given. It is like using a phrasebook.


Think of a phrasebook. This is what the rules mean. Ready phrases in a foreign language to express what is in your mind. Even if spoken with wrong intonation, they mean it.
And if you want to be a good friend to an aspie, it is reasonable that you should learn some Aspie language, too. First lesson: not talking to someone does not mean rejection. It means the communication is too overwhelming at that moment or there is nothing substantial to communicate.

Trust me, it's not just aspies who think that kind of facebook stuff is stupid....I do too. It's sad and pathetic actually. I never participate in crap like that. I also think it means absolutely nothing to get a birthday wish on facebook, which comes only because facebook sent someone a notification to tell you happy birthday. It's all fake. But reaching out to a friend of your own accord to tell them...anything, that means something, at least to me. Social media, in my opinion, confused to populous (of all neuological types) as to what real "friends" are.

Last edited by imhere on 07 Oct 2017, 6:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I fail to see my asking HOW YOU FEEL about this or that gets translated into YOU FEEL NOTHING AND YOU'RE A SOCIOPATH. Those are very different things, and don't even look the same at all in a sentence in print. That's ridiculous. And since I WAS involved with a sociopath at one point in my past, I fully well know the difference between an Aspie and a sociopath, FULL WELL!!

So just reaching out to a friend to tell them "anything" is like that Facebook post I used as an example. Besides, we aren't just good at reaching out to a friend to say "anything", the best we could do is reach out to a friend and say every little followed by nothing. To us, calling somebody up and holding a conversation is like conjuring wine from water. If you want to call me up, imhere, and talk about Aspergers, I'll talk your ear off and you might very well do likewise. But expect me to call up and just make up a conversation that has no practical purpose and yet is supposed to get me to maintain a friendship....I have no idea how I'd go about doing that.

Like I said, this isn't just a lack of unwillingness on our part, it's a lack of capacity to actually do it. You all are speculating about why your Aspie friends aren't being more friendly, but you're failing to realize one of the fundamental issues with Aspies is we lack social skills to do that very thing. I know, we meet a friend in person to *do* something like go out to eat, etc. and we can pull off the social thing and you might even forget we are Aspie for awhile, but than that just makes you forget that we are faking our capabilities. We might love the conversation and the company, but we have learned to pull it off by observing people over the years and taking their lines and mannerisms and adapting them to our purposes.

I find your stories helpful. This part in what you said above is also insightful. But I still struggle with understanding how an aspie might feel about their friend. It's been said a few times that an aspie can be focused on other things and not think about maintaining friendships. I'm not expecting someone to ruminate over what they should do or say to keep up a friendship...he doesn't have to impress me with social prowess. I am more wondering how an aspie thinks OF a person they care about...for instance...for my aspie friend, I think about him a lot. I hope he's alright, that things are going smoothly for him as he just made a major transition, I hope he is adjusting well. I wonder if he's enjoying his new role, if he's meeting new people and making friends in his new environment, I hope he is impressing those around him like I know he can, and a lot of other well wishes. I'd like to know if he was having any difficulty and if so, what I could do to help him. Just wish I could let him know that I support him no matter what. I am thinking about how much I care for him and how much I respect and admire him, and how much I miss not seeing him every day, and how he is unique and no one else can ever fill the void he left behind in my life even if someone takes on his former job--it's just not the same. Things like that are what I am thinking about my friend. These are all things I'd like to tell him to let him know I'm thinking of him, and things I'd ask him about if he were talking to me.

I wonder if he is thinking anything at all about me too, or if he is "focused" on all of the other things in his life. I am very busy. More than I can express. But still, I think of him. Don't know if that goes both ways or not. If I knew the answer to that, then I wouldn't need as much of those other "social niceties" for validation that are absent anyway. But in this case, he is just absent altogether. That is why I ask. I know everyone is different. But there are some commonalities, that goes for all people. That is why I ask.