The UCSB shooter--an Aspie with a rant against women

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According to what I read of his manifesto, it was 100% about needing every good thing in the universe to come to him instead of going to someone else. The sex/girls narrative was, I think, just handy. If the cultural narrative had been about the desperate status-defining importance of having the favor of the mayor of Oakland, I'm guessing the mayor's inner circle would've been the ones in line for murder.

Tarantella, I think our country is coming apart like the Roman empire. As a country, I think we are finished.

Where are men getting this idea that they are "entitled" to sex?????

I think that is what we need to figure out and change course on. Something must be feeding it.

.

Well, yes, but right now we're in Love and Dating, and I have heard similar ideas from members here (without the hate and violence).

I will tell you. Our culture that says if one does not get sex then one is a loser and women are treated like a commodity to be hustled over in our hustling based society.

I blame Darwin. There is an awful lot of very dodgy thinking that gets thrown around in terms of gender essentialism and the 'truth' about gender relations that makes some vague gesture to evolutionary theory. Really it's just repackaging old stories and coming up with a Just So story about how it's evolutionarily beneficial (whatever that means) for women to go after jerks, or rich guys, or beefcakes.

Thus old misogynistic myths become encoded in the XX chromosomes. Her preferences that leave the 'lonely' male spurned in the dust are inherent - indeed, inheritable. She is biologically bound to the wily and duplicitious, to tempt and lure all men so she can have her pick, spurning the rest, and even then only ever waiting for his better to come along.

They are still stories we tell about ourselves and each other, only now we think we're being scientific.

Its current incarnation is called Pickup Artist culture (PUA). It now occupies a large portion of the internet, and apparently a whole lotta autistic guys, trying to understand how to date and find love, wind up reading this garbage and believing it to be true. I'd bet money that if you could put a trace on all the misogyny here, a lot of it would go right back to sites like those.

Fundamental to PUA culture is the idea that you aren't a loser: you're entitled to lots of sex with babes, and the secrets are in this little book. Rodger posted lots, apparently, to a site called PUAhate, which was full of disgruntled men for whom the PUA tools hadn't worked (surprise, surprise). Their conclusion: Women are evil.

The Church got there first, is my understanding.

Great <sarcasm>. It's like we need an anti-PUA sticky to help keep the poison from spreading.

I have no problem with telling people they have value (ie aren't losers), of course, but having or not having sex really should have NOTHING to do with it. Not everyone is meant to be in or will be happier in a relationship, and there are others ways to meet purely physical needs.

I guess I am still floating in the past, I am 52 years old now and when I was growing up it was still traditional for the males to do the courting, it sounds nice if things are balancing out between the sexes. I have a son but he is only 8 so I have not got to see how they interact in modern days. so I was just assuming. I never get out and socialize anymore so (shrugs).

http://www.policymic.com/articles/89953 ... t-misogyny

I have to turn this one around on you, since men aren't the only ones who feel entitled to take from others. For example, I meet quite a lot of women who think that health care and education are rights. I've personally worked my butt off to make those "rights" possible, including:

- working on optics-finishing systems needed to make modern medical scopes and intra-ocular implants.

- microlithoraphic systems needed to make SNP-chips.

- several separate systems that made modern computer chips and hard disk drives possible. Without those, you wouldn't have CAT scans, MRIs, any type of bioinformatics, or computerized medical records. A lot of statistical research being done now wouldn't be practical.

Our company was the only one in the world able to make that stuff.

I agree that he doesn't have a right to love or sex. By the same token, you do not have a right to my work.

As for your continuation:



Absolutely, and a lot of women need a major refresher on that. The amount that a 30-ish middle class guy pays in taxes to support just the non-working parts of our education system would cover half the rent at a studio apartment. It would cover his private health insurance twice-over. I meet a lot of women who want to tell me what I should support. That's not even close to OK.

Love and sex are not commodities.

Your work became a commodity the minute you got paid to do it. Not to mention, in a world where we have the ability to provide a healthy quality of life, the concept of human dignity requires that we share it, and not just reserve it for the most privileged few. If you don't want to share it to anyone in need, then never let it spread beyond your own personal use.

Love and sex by their nature never exceed "your own personal use."

As for the last paragraph, political beliefs are entirely separate from what I'm talking about, and there should be nothing wrong with a woman sharing her opinion; you have the simple right to respectfully disagree. I don't think you understand my point. Granted, a few women think that their beautiful selves are all they should need to give to a relationship, but that is not what you are saying. It isn't like there are not plenty of women paying more than their fair share in taxes, too, so it isn't like the political belief comes from a desire to spend just "your" money; it comes from women tending to have a more nurturing nature including towards the world as a whole, and there isn't anything wrong with that, IMHO. We'll debate it out and find a compromise.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 26 May 2014, 6:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Is it just me, or is it fairly common for Aspie men to project such traits (being negative + self-absorbed)? By fairly common, I mean statistically, compared to neurotypical men.

Also, this may be controversial, but from my perspective, the opportunity here, is to properly raise young Aspies. So, that their expectations are properly set about the futility of trying to live a neurotypical lifestyle with neurotypical aspirations (and, yes, based upon the messages delivered from the media, sex is part of those aspirations). As - IMHO - that is a recipe for disaster. Or worse.

I'm not going to accept a magical argument like that. You need to explain what's so special about your contribution that it deserves such an inflated valuation.



Wow. That's a heck of a negative attitude.



Girls who want to have sex all the time have no trouble getting lots of boys to do lots of nice things for them, but the relationships that you get are often worth less than what you put out.

I didn't bother to ask a girl out until I was 27, and even then it was because she was a friend, and I already knew that wanted to date but didn't have the guts to ask. I don't get asked out as much anymore, put I put out much less (emotionally) and the relationships are higher quality. No regrets.



Do you really talk about your son that way? Wow. He could do better.

I would say that the kind of negativity and self-absorption that made me run away went a lot further than common Aspie behavior. I grew up around Aspie men; I knew the difference.

An Aspie guy who is serious about wanting a relationship certainly can learn to show interest in the person he is talking to, by asking questions and so forth. You kind of need that to have any sort of relationship.

For the record, my Aspie son is so comfortable in his own skin that he has no interest in living a nuerotypical lifestyle with nuerotypical aspirations. I don't think it is about saying, "hey, don't want this" as much as teaching true self-acceptance, and that my son has. And ... if it wasn't for his hormones insisting on it, he would rather not think at all about sex, lol. But, since they do, he has reluctantly allowed himself to get dragged into the dating world, and while he isn't very good at it and isn't really ready for it, there are definitely girls who like him. He does fake NT well enough often enough to get by with some things a more impaired Aspie might not, but within his social circle, he usually is his full-on Aspie self, so it isn't the faking it that gets some girls interested. Fascinating to watch, really. Of course, as his mom I think he's kind of handsome, so if kids his age see him that way, too, I'm sure it helps And he is seen as smart among his peers, another thing that probably helps (since many girl are still evolutionarily hard-wired to seek good providers). Um, not that he is having sex; he isn't. He knows that would be inappropriate at his age and stage of life, and too likely to mess up his goals. He's just enjoying the first steps.

When I've come on this board, sometimes the dating mistakes being made are so glaring, I wish I had time to help coach all the young singles that come on here struggling. But, alas, they never want to listen to me anyway. Still, you can't blame the world when your foot is firmly in your mouth, especially when you insist on putting it back in there every time someone tells you how to remove it. I think, in that situation, you have to realize that subconsciously you don't want what you think you want, and work on getting your conscious to align with your subconscious. Heck, I did that myself for more than a decade, making glaring dating mistakes because I wasn't actually ready for a serious relationship. We all do it. We live in a world that tells what we are supposed to want, and we buy into it, even though it might not actually be the best thing for us in that time and place.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 26 May 2014, 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Are girls more likely to do that nowadays? Back when I was still in high school, a girl would have to be quite brave to ask any guy out instead of waiting for him to ask her out on a date because it would go against the norm. So, cultural factors play a role here as well. The most that I got in that regard when I was in high school was when I got a Valentine's Day card from a girl and I only found who it was a few years later. I never even noticed when anyone would appeared interested in me because I did pick up on any of those non-verbal cues and the first time that I went on a date was when I was 31.