so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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Between two lovers in a romantic setting like in flowered bedroom or some park lol ? - yes, perhaps.
But tarantella's objection was in different context, she was replying to a guy who kissed a friend (NOT his gf) on her mouth without asking her, and unsurprisingly she texted him later telling him that he shouldn't do it ever again.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 14 Jul 2014, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Did you even read my post, Laddo?

What you describe above I think, is how it should be. There's a decent awareness of it on both sides then.

I mean, there's always been big signs before I've been kissed. You always (BOTH) lean in closer or touch each other more, before the kiss. To me that's subtle, but still quite clear.

Oh I see. Yeah, I agree with her on that then if the woman in question was unaware he was going to do it and unwilling. I have a bit of a bad habit of taking forum posts a little too literally sometimes and going in all guns blazing without checking my corners first. That's a bit of a mixed metaphor, but oh well. It's really not my intention to alienate people on this forum because I really am not a sexist

I added the bolded part. That is the distinction that no one seemed to get in that infamous thread. The OP of that thread was not on a date. And no one actually called him a rapist although that myth very quickly took on a life of its own and was repeated, ad nauseum, until it became a "WP forum legend" that those nasty feminists were claiming that "kissing without asking = rape."

I just wish everyone here would read a bit more carefully and thoughtfully and not be so all-fired quick to take offense.

The biggest issue I see on this site is that sexism towards males on the site is largely ignored. As soon as a male makes a comment that is sexist, mildly sexist, or just a factual statement about his own preferences, for example I could say "I don't like big girls." and I'd probably be called sexiest or judged. The original poster's statement could come across alittle sexist, but I don't think she intended it that way. Someone pointed that out and another female member defended her. If it were the other way around and the OP were a male and posted something similar, he would probably be attacked by a lot of the female members of the site. Another thing I have noticed is that, male members will point out where female members have been sexiest, they will make a lot of good points, but then they themselves will make a sexiest remark towards women; thus defeating their whole point of making their argument to begin with. The hypocrisy on this site is astounding.

That's actually a good question. The pressure of having to be judged by having to have a female companion, and the resultant anxiety is probably the reason I fear rejection so much. The way my mind works is, that the more pressure I feel there is to a situation and the more essential it is to succeed at something, the more likely I am to be so caught up with being perfect at it, that I actually end up failing as a result. My anxious mind almost rebels at making the things I want easy, and this goes for everything I want in life, and a relationship is no different.

So if I could completely eradicate the expectation, thus the fear of failure, I would actually most likely find it easier to find someone, well in theory anyway. i know I'm not perfect physically or emotionally in any way and I think this increases my fear of rejection. So not having a fear may actually allow me to accept being imperfect, since ultimately no one is perfect. Who knows?

I am not going to argue this again. That thread was closed for a good reason. I only mentioned it as backstory for tarantella implying I'm a rapist, on which you're curiously mum.



How about you do what works for you in dating, and I'll do what has been working for me?

actually what it seemed like to me was that she was stating rather explicitly that you seem to have impulse control issues and not much respect for women's bodily autonomy if you assume you have the right to kiss someone whether they want you to or not--which you have no way of knowing unless you already have an established relationship or you've asked if it's ok. that is not in fact the same thing as being a rapist--it's the same thing as being a guy who is apparently ok with making women uncomfortable and ignoring their boundaries if it means you get a kiss out of it, and anyone who questions you on that gets angry insults from you. that was my interpretation.

You know, this pretty much sums up my own personal insecurities about women, too. I'm a perfectionist in many ways which is probably born from a fear of failure. As a child I was frequently put down and told that I would never get anywhere in life by classmates and teachers alike. So I could well be punishing myself for not succeeding with women because, well, I'm not succeeding. My mind can be very rebellious towards itself, too. Which could be why I keep going into arguments all guns blazing despite the fact I'm ultimately on this forum to make friends, not make enemies and alienate members.

Of course, I don't know if this applies for other men, but all men are different, so there's probably a huge variety of reasons why a man may beat himself up over being single. I think the moral of the story for everyone is love yourself and others will follow suit, although it can be very tricky to overcome self-critical thoughts and grow to love yourself

I am positively seeing red right now. I do NOT assume I have any right whatever to kiss someone if she doesn't want me to. Is that clear? Should I have bolded it for you? I think I should have. Let me try again. I do NOT assume I have any right whatever to kiss someone if she doesn't want me to. As I said in that thread... YES there are some men who look for whatever excuse to impose themselves on women. YES these same men claim "she asked for it". I am NOT one of these men. The difference between people like me and people like them is that they don't care whether the woman wants the affection or not, whereas I do. If I don't think a woman wants me to, I don't act. It's that simple. The reason why I don't ask is because it kills the mood for me. I have different romantic preferences and I'm not going to change them just because you can't get it through your head that men can be romantically spontaneous and respectful of women at the same time. My preferences don't mean I have poor impulse control, nor am I okay with making women uncomfortable. I have not had ANY negative experiences kissing anyone without explicit permission. In fact I've missed so many opportunities because my personal threshold of certainty for making a move wasn't met.

If you still feel tempted to reply back with how I don't respect women or apparently have no qualms making them uncomfortable.... don't. Just don't. I am so pissed off right now.

Last edited by onewithstrange on 14 Jul 2014, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I dunno, on a first date I would definitely ask first- if it's a mouth kiss (cheek kisses are ok).

But again, I am from an alien culture to everyone here.

I have noticed this last bit as well. I think it may very well have to do with Aspies' tendency towards black-and-white thinking. The "trigger" words jump out, and the rest of a post is just skimmed because, obviously, if someone is using any of those kinds of words, then they must be <fill in the blank.> Every single thread that has blown up into genders wars starts the same way.

I've worked in male-dominated fields since I was in my early 20s, and have been subjected to sexism almost constantly. Still am. It's still way worse on here than anywhere else I've seen or heard. If no one here could potentially benefit from the "this is what sexist language is" examples, those of us who keep posting them would probably shut up about it.

Here are a couple of interesting Google finds:

In the UK: https://fullfact.org/articles/bad_and_d ... rime-28939

In the US: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/wo.txt

98% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by men. Where, exactly, is the so-called "equality" now?

Last edited by Eureka13 on 14 Jul 2014, 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

so what you're saying is, so far you haven't been wrong. good thing you're willing to risk being wrong and making someone uncomfortable for the sake of "romance."

the guy who wrote that other thread really did think that his friend was sending him signals that she wanted him to kiss her, so he kissed he because he was convinced she wanted him to. he was wrong. this is what you risk when you don't ask and just assume you are right and that she wants it. you risk being wrong and kissing someone who doesn't want you to. it's very simple to avoid that risk by saying something first like "i'd really like to kiss you right now". and my suggesting this is making you see red and get enraged?

I was referring to the guy kissing a friend thread.

But oh well, if your lips are that irresistible in dating then...good luck, hope you won't get yourself in legal troubles because of that.

Unfortunately, this is always going to be the case as long as men are generally physically larger and stronger than women. I'm not saying it's right but from a scientific point of view, it makes sense that the more physically powerful of two groups would be the one committing the larger amount of crimes against the less physically powerful. I do believe that men who commit these horrific crimes do represent a small minority of men, though. At least I would sincerely hope so

They are a small percentage. Something I have never liked about many liberal and feminist groups is that, they speak out about rape and women rights, yet at the same time are against a woman's right to defend herself. If you support a woman's right to vote and equality in the work place, why would you not allow her to carry a firearm for protection? This actually implies that, the same feminist groups think that women are incompetent of handling firearms.