Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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makuranososhi
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05 Feb 2009, 12:42 am

I still don't quite agree... I am adept with percussion and music theory; while I studied dance in school, I loathed it with a passion and even do to this day. I don't consider myself defective as a result, though... and my tastes in music cover so much ground that I face the opposite response, that I have no taste because I listen to such a vast range. Your opinion of yourself matter more here than you realize, I think... because even if someone had a different opinion of you than that, you won't see it if you are absolutely convinced that the opposite is true. Not acting, but believing. Being weird isn't a bad thing, but believing that you are unlovable is.


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dsfargeg
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08 Feb 2009, 4:27 am

For the record, I stopped being a nice guy after my best friend told me I should be more brave. It all happened because I never had the courage to tell him I didn't wanted to be in a party because I had other plans.

And trust me, "not nice" doesn't means "jerk". It simply means "being able to say no", as well as "being unflinching when confronted or disagreed".

I don't know if his advice is going to get me a girl, but what I know is that I've been feeling way more confident this semester. I decided to quit my normal average-looking clothes and started dressing in black, with tons of rings, necklaces, chains and wristbands. Why? Because I'm who I am, because I feel I am the best man in the world, and because nobody will ever tell me how to dress. And nobody has the right to put me down, never, and if they try, I will be the one who will put them down. And in being confident about myself and never letting anyone put me down, I also obey the institutional authority and the federal and state law, but speak up if I can prove the authority is wrong: if I get kicked from the mall for taking pictures without permission, that's fine, I've been violating the rules of the place and therefore I won't complain. But if I get kicked for loitering, and by "loitering" I mean "standing in the same place with my friends for less than 5 minutes", that's where I speak up.

This, my friends, is being a not nice guy. Which, as you can see, is not the same as being a jerk.



V3N0M
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13 Feb 2009, 9:11 pm

Praetorius wrote:
KingChaosNinja wrote:
Nice guys do finish last, but they do still finish.
Yeah, with ugly girls.

You win the internet

Anyway, nice guys and love sound like girly men and a ball and chain respectively.



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Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
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15 Feb 2009, 9:28 pm

I TOTALLY AGREE, FIANLLY SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES IN THAT!
I'm totally the 'Nice guy' your refering to, I guess that is kind of arrogant to say but I am shy and people just dont find it attractive, confidence is seen straight off and these days it seems to be about the confidene and not eh looks at all, it makes me depressed sometimes because I have alot of love to give and I am sensitive which is what some peple want, but I'm tired of feeling unattractive and left out just because Ive had alot of stuff to deal with in my life which has shrunk my confidence, it isn't fair but that's how life goes
:)



Hovis
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19 Mar 2009, 11:41 am

Betterclassed wrote:
If you look sort of "wimpy" or "fairy" (ie. gay) then you have a lot more work to do but you can still make.


You have a lot less work if the female in question (like me) likes 'girly'-looking men.

If it's occasionally questionable whether you're male or female, I have a good chance of finding you cute. :lol:



CerebralDreamer
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20 Mar 2009, 2:34 am

I don't think it's an issue of nice guy/bad guy. If you obsess about finding a date, and neglect to get involved in a meaningful club or charity, you're going to have problems. Meanwhile, the guy that goes out and does something, doesn't matter if he's nice or cruel, he's going to have more success.

Just look around the church, and at some of your married teachers/professors. A lot of them are married to some wonderful people. I'll be those people engaged in some sort of activity that caught their partner's attention long before they married. I'll bet a number of them are still doing it too.



NauticalCa
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20 Mar 2009, 1:34 pm

I think, for guys, it's not about just being nice. It's finding that elusive combination of nice but confident.

Fact is, a lot of women are drawn to as*holes simply because they act manly and don't care as much about what other people think. If a woman had to choose between a guy who was a bit of a dick but still very masculine and sexy and the one who was sweet, gentle and a bit shy, I can assure you women will, nine times out of ten, pick the dick over the sweet guy. It's not a morality question or whether a woman is shallow -- it's a biological concern, especially for highly attractive women. It's not exactly a big surprise that highly attractive women like Gisele Bundchen date men like Tom Brady. She's got the pick of any man she wants, and he's one of the most marketable males in America (football star, rich, movie-star looks). Maybe Brady's a dick, maybe not. I doubt, however, she's dating him because of his rich knowledge of Brazil or his ability to appreciate Tom Ford's design work.

The biggest mistake guys make is that we place too much value on socially prescribed norms when it comes to women and not enough on what, on the most basic level, what drives us to pursue women: evolution and biology. We overthink the value of certain things and not enough about others. We might be in 2009 and consider ourselves as civilized (yeah right) but the same biological impulses that drove us 10,000 years ago still exist today. We've just dressed them up in rules, etiquette and fancier cars, but the same biological instincts drive us.

Here's the way I see it: the universe is largely indifferent when it comes to questions of morality in actions. Morality is a human concept that enables us to act in a socially acceptable/unacceptable way. But when it comes to nature, morality doesn't play into it. Things happen for a wide variety of reasons, whether it be purely random events (which is what a lot of life is anyway) or the act of natural selection. It's cold and detached, but it's the truth.

So when it comes to dating, you have to look at it through the lense of indifference. In other words, you can't expect a woman to accept you simply on the basis of how Good a person you are. The cold, bottom line is: how can you assist her in reaching her evolutionary goals? Being kind and Good is an asset, sure, but it doesn't mean you're going to give her what she needs.

And what are those goals? Well, based on my past relationships and my female friends' opinions, women generally seem to be attracted to guys who are confident in their abilities of all kinds (not just financially or physically), protective sometimes but not to the point of overbearing, capable of good conversation and making them laugh. Women want security in men, although not in the strictly financial sense. They want to know the guy they're dating/having sex with is giving her peace of mind that he's "got it together."

Notice how none of this has to do with how you look, but rather how you carry yourself. This is one of the great strengths of women over men; while us guys, rather simplistically I might add, place an undue amount of emphasis on women's looks in mate selection (hey, makes sense in an evolutionary context but not in 2009), women seem to get, on a very instinctual level, how vital it is for a prospective mate to offer her something more than just a fabulous six-pack or how much a guy resembles Brad Pitt or Channing Tatum. Sure, looks do matter to women, but nowhere near as much as they do for us dudes. Ah, nature's indifference rules again.

I think a lot of men get particularly frustrated now more than ever simply because guys have become very confused about their social role and how to reconcile their deep-seeded urges with what society has come to expect of straight male behaviour. If you're too far to one end of the spectrum by acting like an as*hole and thinking entirely as a Human Animal, you'll likely get a lot of sex but not much in terms of commitment or love (and men do value this more than women think) and the Law of Diminishing Returns takes over the older and older you get. But if you act over-socialized and insecure about your manhood, thinking too much with the head up top instead of below, you'll get more and more frustrated at the "mean girls" out there who abuse your kindness and say things like "you're such a nice guy" but would never in a million years sleep with you.

A woman does not want to sleep with or have sex with a man who reminds her of other women.

If you can find, as a man, the ability to balance your kind hearted nature with masculine confidence, women respond to that very, very well. Balancing your inner Nice Guy with not fearing your capacity for being manly is, from what my female friends say, very hot to them.



ImTheGuyThatDidThat
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24 Mar 2009, 8:56 am

""Well I'm going to cite off a cliche' that everyone is familiar with- "Nice guys finish last". ""

Thats new, i`ve heard that nice guys finish alone, in the shower.
Anyway, i think the nice guy term is relative. Some guys
that are looked upon as nice guys by some, are useless
when others look at them. Some might think i`m a nice
guy, others might think i`m an a-hole - so i dont see
the nice guy-thing as a real thing at all. Its an illusion,
theres no such things as nice and bad guys, its just
guys behaving differently and people looking at
them differently. Of course there are some people
that just are total w*kers and thats it, but thats
another thread.



Kilroy
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31 Mar 2009, 10:15 pm

makuranososhi
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31 Mar 2009, 10:29 pm

Kilroy wrote:
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

a very informative site-so true!


While I don't always like the style of writing, there is a lot of relatively interesting information... admittedly, many of the things discussed are inherent challenges for those on the spectrum - timing, appropriateness, insecurity - but they are also pretty accurate in some cases. I'm surprised that I agreed with as much of the content as I do.


M.


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Tom
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02 Apr 2009, 2:56 am

Nauticalca is speaking good sense. Mark his words well.



Bluestocking
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02 Apr 2009, 12:49 pm

Am I alone in my absolute disgust and distaste for "nice guys"? A nice guy to me is not someone I want to be in love with. Nice guys tend to be hideously insecure and emotional drains to boot. I dated a "nice guy" once, who bought me roses "just because", was always calling me, emailing me, and texting me, but was extremely aggressive and emotionally manipulative, blaming me for the littlest things and trying to make everything my fault. That's even worse than a jerk. At least the jerk is honest in a way I can understand. "Nice guys" are a headache.
I understand of course, that there are genuine guys out there who may be a bit shy and insecure, and not fit into this "nice guy" label I've affixed on the insecure manipulators. I hope they get the women they deserve, and hold no grudge against them. But self-professed nice guys who fit the first description are not my cuppa tea.



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02 Apr 2009, 12:59 pm

I always had the impression that women liked nice guys for the supportive help they give and their "don't make waves" attitude, and that these very "Nice Guy" qualities often led women to believe that the man was gay - even if the women never consciously admit it to themselves.

I have little more to contribute on my own, so here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:

The Folks at Wikipedia wrote:
No More Mr. Nice Guy is a self-help book by Dr. Robert A. Glover. He describes what he calls the "Nice Guy Syndrome," a condition in men who appear to be always nice (and boring), and who avoid conflict at all costs.

Glover's premise is that nice guys have been conditioned by their childhoods and by society to believe that they will be successful only if they make everyone happy, and never cause any problems for others. However, this desire for approval is countered by self-loathing. In other words, nice guys want approval, but don't think they deserve it. This creates internal frustration--nice guys never try to obtain what they want in life. In addition, the nice guy's desire to obtain approval from everyone (especially women), causes him to actually behave in very un-nice ways. This includes dishonesty (about themselves) and passive-aggressive behavior (to get what they want without asking for it).

Dr. Glover's prescription involves getting nice guys to recognize that their needs and desires are important, and that to make others happy they must first learn to make themselves happy. One of the primary ways advised in the book to remedy this is for nice guys to learn to embrace and develop their masculine traits, instead of fearing and suppressing them.

So this doctor believes that nice guys lose out because of their manipulative passive-aggression and deceptive practices, as well as their overall lack of ambition and self-deprecating behavior.

It makes sense to me. I can't even stand women who act like that!


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04 Apr 2009, 10:59 pm

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... ice2.shtml


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musicislife
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06 Apr 2009, 7:33 pm

my theory on guys (true most of the time)...

1. the cute ones are jerks
2. the nice ones look like a horse's butt
3. the nice and cute ones are gay


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hartzofspace
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06 Apr 2009, 9:34 pm

musicislife wrote:
my theory on guys (true most of the time)...

1. the cute ones are jerks
2. the nice ones look like a horse's butt
3. the nice and cute ones are gay


:lol:


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