Why are women so desperate for men?

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You know what. I don't think I know my friends that well. We've never had a conversation about what we are after in a partner.

Though. If this is what I assume about them, that they are happily independent, and a bit over particular, then that's what men will also see.

How does one show that they are not an "independent woman" who thinks men are a waste of space?

Same here. The idea of dating somebody just for "experience" is a complete contradiction to the whole purpose of relationships the way I see them. I don't want a tool, I want somebody I actually care about.

One word: physical contact

Ok, that's two words, but still...

I agree. But what about women who want experienced men when a man has no experience?

If I were in that position, I'd be like: experience? psshhh, of OF COURSE I'm experienced! Whadya mean, experience? Come on, I'll buy ya dinner...

Here's one I've said in here before: Experienced? What are you talking about? You want to know if I'm experienced? How about you? You're not even experienced! No, I don't care about how many boyfriends you had. You haven't had ME yet, so what does that tell you about your experience? Stick with me and I'll GIVE you an experience! Tell ya what, you like rollerskating? I LOVE rollerskating! I'll pick you up Saturday at 5. And right next door they have the best pizza and beer in town. Skating, pizza, no pressure, and I'll call you next week. Whadya say?

I'm of the opinion if something as trivial as a lack of experience turns somebody off from me then it's clear they were never all that interested in me to begin with. Not going to lose sleep over people so shallow.

I think so, too.

I think it's more like a job interview. Many job descriptions indicate an experience requirement, at least all the GOOD ones do. Which leaves all the non-experienced guys out. HR departments aren't stupid. They know they're creating a Catch-22. It separates the sheep from the goats. The more creative, confident, and ambitious types will find ways of visiting the job site, get on friendly terms with the receptionist, figure out ways to meet the prospective boss, become good friends with someone who actually works there, and come up with a plan to make sure his resumé makes it to the top of the stack.

With women, and really with everyone, insisting on experience is really the same thing. Think about it: if you have no experience with women, what does that say about you? Creep. Weirdo. Loser. Because what's wrong with you that you can't be with a decent woman?

That's all it is. There's no shame in a good woman wanting to date a decent person who will make her feel good and not go nuts on her.

So...what's the real problem here? ARE you a creel? ARE you a weirdo? ARE you a loser? No? If not, why are we even having this conversation? So when the question comes up, the answer is: Experienced? Why, YES! YES, I AM!

It's not that you're using women as tools only for experience. Experience comes with dating and relationships. You want to go out with a girl because she's cool, not because she's a bullet point on your dating resumé. But, naturally, MOST relationships you have will end, not counting death ending your last one. So, yeah, over your lifetime you'll accumulate a list of previous experiences.

For the record, I've only had sex with 6 women and am perfectly fine with that. Beyond that, I've got a list of girls I've kissed/fondled/canoodled with going back to late elementary school, among those a small number of girlfriends that were seldom physical past kissing or holding hands. And that was really just because I obsessed over it. I mean REALLY obsessed over it, like sneaking my mom's magazines and romance novels, watching daytime soaps, memorizing entire sections of encyclopedias and medical books--all that.

So for me, discussing it is easy because I knew what I wanted early on and was willing to do whatever it takes to make it happen. I'm not good-looking, muscular, don't have a head full of hair, not in good shape (aside from running--oh, my mile running pace just dropped under 10 minutes this week!), not very smart, not tall, not articulate. I smell bad, am physically awkward as well as socially awkward...AND YET I figured out how to get married, KEEP my wife, and raise a family.

So...anyway, back to the point... Women who demand "experience" at the outset might very well be nice women who'd be good for you. All they're trying to do is cut the crap. I made it a policy write no one off. I had plenty of positive experiences, but those pale in comparison to the number of times I totally bombed. If I had it all to do over again knowing what I know now, I'd have lightened up, not taken rejection so hard, and not gotten so bent out of shape over breakups. Of course, these are only things you learn from...

You mean like touch them on the arm when you talk to them. Pat them on the hand.

I find that really difficult. Even my mother will tell you I'm not very demonstrative.

I always feel really fake doing "flirtatious" things.

I'll be alone for ever.

Sabreclaw, I can assure you that when you start date women, you will notice that one of the very things they ask you about is your previous relationships and ex partners.

And believe me, when I was still virgin and hadn't ever had a partner before (at a very late age), this subject was extremely difficult and embarrassing to tackle.

It's easy for you to say behind the screen that wouldn't impact your self esteem because you don't want such shallow people; but when it happens to you for real, in the meatspace, believe me, you will remember me for this post - and you will find out how demeaning and embarrassing it is.

Funnily, I found out my date today was married and divorced before - so she's way more experienced than me.

Everyone is different boo. If it doesn't bother him it doesn't bother him.

I think I'm gonna quote you on your last sentence for my signature.

Yeah, I mean, I get that it feels fake. Part of us being us is "normal" stuff doesn't feel normal. But touch is communication, and communication is power. Trust me, the guy will receive your message.

Stick with arm, hand, or if you're really feeling feisty the knee or lower thigh if you're sitting down. Don't go groping a man's package or anything.

It will bother him when *it happens*.

It will bother you too when it happens.

How much do they make at their part time job? .i too doubt they'd date a guy making min wage part time, which lets be honest is the only part time jobs. Higher paying jobs tend to require employees work full time

I'm still not using someone just for relationship points. I think you're just trying to justify your own decisions. Don't put us down to do that. We can all choose our own paths. Stop talking down to us.

Some of us would rather be on our own than compromise our principles. We're free to do that. There's no one right way of going about relationships.

I am not at the point where I'd consider dating someone who was married and divorced before. I think the last woman who showed interest in me might well have been in this situation. We met in a Meetup group, and while in our first interaction she didn't seem to show romantic interest, in subsequent times we did things together she started getting "touchy" and whatever.

Something didn't feel right though, like when I tried flirting in a more innocent playful manner she didn't reciprocate, and yet then she hit on ME in a way that came across as "too adult" and turned me off. This was especially odd since I was open from the start about how I was starting that Meetup group because I didn't get to date as a teenager and was looking for other people in that "boat". There was never a "me too" moment from her. So all in all, while I was flattered that someone showed interest, I just got a strong "vibe" that she wasn't on the same page.

I think it fell apart when there was this one night where I showed her around the streets of a small town and she held my hand. After that she never wanted to see me again. I think she expected that I'd kiss her and I didn't. Meanwhile, I was planning to have a brutally honest (but understanding) "heart-to-heart" with her the next time we met before proceeding any farther, to gauge whether our relationship goals and levels of experience were compatible. I only later saw that one of her Meetup interests was "divorce support".

I see my first relationship being with another aspie (or similarly "socially weird" person) where we both lack romantic experience and can start from that completely transparent mutual understanding. That's the only way I see it working, of going into the relationship with full trust and a feeling of "us" rather than "me" vs. "her". With one exception (a drunk girl at a party), the few girls I've done anything at all with physically were these type of girls, but unfortunately I had no romantic interest in them, so we never actually dated.

My deepest dread is that these are mutually exclusive demands (me being romantically attracted to someone, and being her first boyfriend and her being open about that).

Agreed. Additionally, the type of experience that NTs have is of no value when doing relationships the neurodiverse way, and this far, no ND girl ever asked about my experience. It has a lot more to do with being natural and creative about things than having past experience.

It only happens in "meat space", or when dealing with NTs, so there is nothing inevitable about it.