No prospect of future GF = Get a prostitute instead?

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Now, you all can get all religious and declare that sex itself is a sin unless performed between a man and his wife for the sole purpose of begetting babies, or you can get all philosophical about how nothing that is natural can ever be wrong, or you can get all scientific about pheromones, hormones, and how a man's sex drive is ten times that of a woman's ... et cetera ... ad nauseum ...

Regardless, men who frequent prostitutes have little or no respect for women as people according to this Newsweek article, "The John Next Door".

I'm inclined to agree.

I read the article.

First, it lumps in visiting strip clubs and getting lapdances with prostitution. Then it switches to discussing underaged trafficked sex slaves. It doesn't seem to understand that there is any difference between the two.

Either the author has no clue what they're talking about, or they have no real concern for the truth.

Another idea, you can outlaw sex itself, because you can't get any.


I'm inclined to take it with a grain of salt, as with anything else, given that it is ideological or activism driven.


In the case of this thread I think it's more related to self-respect or conforming with less then you could achieve, (if you can achieve it [being that a relationship]), so I did a fast read to the article, which looks like being ideologically driven focusing on the problems of sex trafficking, it did not seem to focus on the psychology of the "Johns", (correct me if am wrong on this). And this particular thread has much to do with the psychology and frustrations of the "Johns".

In the end, it isn't as simple as that, as why this "John" go with a prostitute isn't a black and white issue, sure there are those who don't respect women and all that, however the simplistic saying that "men who frequent prostitutes have no respect for women" is more of a convenience and usually, not surprising, an ideological convenience..

Does that mean that I think prostitution is a job to dream about? I actually don't think so, as I don't think pornography is a career a woman must have dreamed for in her childhood when she thought about her future (every rule could have its own exceptions though), as I agree with this:


About the legality of prostitution, there are different views from both ends regarding that, wether it should or should not be legal, and so on, as well as wether that increases sex trafficking or wether it doesn't have that of a big impact as the correlation suggests from reports, and things like regulation and recognizing it as an actual job protected by labour laws could help.

I don't have any absolute certainty about the issue here but I question the arguments, and that I see certainty from this end as well from the other end.

There is an observation I have, and a question comes to mind, that is underage sex slaves. That doesn't seem to do with the legalization of prostitution, given that this is about adult prostitution, so the "legalization increases sex trafficking" thing seems questionable given that factor. I mean, how is the number of that compared to adult sex slaves or adults sex slaves who started when they were underage.

Wether prostitution is illegal or legal doesn't seem to make a difference regarding underage trafficking, seems like outlawing all pornography because of child pornography.

We're pretty much in the same ball-park, just from opposite perspectives.

However, I've been working recently with local police in identifying where "Johns" and prostitutes have been hooking up near my neighborhood. I've even had the "pleasure" of talking to some of the girls, and they've related how they have been abused by their customers and their pimps. They've also told me about how they've also worked as "Exotic Dancers" and masseuses.

Forget about any glamorous imagery associated with prostitution - it's all a myth. Guys hire sex workers to use and abuse them, nothing more. There is no love involved. Neither the men nor the women involved have any real concept of what it takes to form a lasting and nurturing relationship (which is why I believe that most of the "Johns" may be on the Spectrum).

Even when rescued from sex trades, sex workers (including hookers, porn stars, call girls, escorts, dancers, masseuses, models, et cetera) have trouble re-integrating into "normal" society - their lives in the sex trades have pretty much ruined them emotionally.

Sure, entering the sex trades was a choice for many of these women, but it was the same kind of choice faced by the people who jumped out of the Twin Towers - jump to their deaths, burn to death, or be crushed when the towers fell. For the girls, it was become a sex worker, starve to death, or get beaten until they submit or die.

Some choice, eh?

And the abusers who keep hiring them for their own sadistic purposes are the ones who perpetuate the misery - the losers should be arrested for their actions and register as sex offenders (along with pedophiles and rapists), at the very least.

This entire thread does not belong in the "Love & Dating" forum; it belongs in "Adult Issues", since prostitution has NOTHING to do with love.

I have no respect for anyone, so so what? I lack respect for everyone equally, so I'm fair.

Also, if I visit a prostitute once, then I'm not exactly frequenting them.

"True" and "False" is a false dichotomy.

This tells you something about a specific subset of prostitutes, specifically streetwalkers in your neighborhood. That might even be representative of streetwalkers elsewhere, but that is not the only variety of prostitute, and prostitutes are not the only variety of sex worker.


How could you possibly know what goes on in the mind of every single one of these men? How could you even know about their actions?


Is there love involved between a customer and a fast-food cashier?


I think you've worded this a bit too strongly, but I think you have a good point here.


Here you basically lump everyone in the same pot and assume it's the same for absolutely everyone. You assume that someone who works as a model (you don't even say nude model) will have an emotionally ruinous trauma.


I'm sure this is sometimes true, but certainly not always.


The thread is about whether prostitution is a good substitute for a girlfriend, if you're someone with difficulty getting a girlfriend. Many males in L&D have this sort of difficulty, so putting the thread here works.

"Drug War's failing....Let's start a new war!"

Nice to see you wanna throw all Aspies in prison.

NO PROSTITUTES

This.

I believe the original question was would a prostitute be a good substitute for a girlfriend for losing your virginity, and if this is true what you said and I'm not taking it too literal then don't hurt a girl by not respecting her. Reading this entire thread has left me nauseous with some of the self-absorbed sadist opinions I've read amongst the way.

I understand (as a trainee psychologist) the difference between the male and female psyche, and the struggle to understand each other as we become so absorbed in our own gender-specific issues. Not even mentioning the social pressures faced by both sexes. But there is a difference to gratifying a basic instinctual need for sex, and the need to feel intimate with someone. Satisfying one without the other has been proven to be detrimental to a persons health. If you believe in Maslows' hierarchy of needs, sex and an intimate relationship are separate needs.

Men feel love just as much as women do, but generally are more afraid to show it. Of course this isn't always the case, and it can be the other way round etc. The English language does not allow much space to not generalize when explaining, unless one sentence becomes a paragraph long (as I just realised I am doing ). However, in autistic's the differences in oxytocin levels generally hit males the hardest. The reason why is unknown. If the person can genuinely not feel love and the need of intimacy is removed from the hierarchy then I would agree that casual sex is the answer.

However, from a personal view, I have to agree that prostitution is a sick and twisted business, catering to the insecurities of the client and using the insecurities of the worker. Even the argument that an escort is different is bullsh*t. No little girl ever wanted to be a sex worker when deciding their future career. The reason that these people cater to this trade is because they are already damaged, be it through abuse as a child, drugs, low self esteem, sex addiction or poverty. Know that if you're f*cking this person you're f*cking their past, and damaging them even more. However if you already don't care about this person as a human being then I suppose you won't care about that.

And besides, would it make you feel better to know you have to pay to have sex?

This is the second time in the thread that someone has used the word 'sadist' as a generic insult without understanding what it means. A sadist is someone who gets sexual pleasure from causing physical pain, not just a generic word meaning 'bad'.


This doesn't even make sense.


Paying for it or not paying for it wouldn't change this. The people this thread is for are people who think that they have no other option (whether or not they are right).

This is more an insult to guys who are desparate than an argument as to why they shouldn't pay for it.

you are incorrect.


Sadism
Psychiatry . sexual gratification gained through causing pain or degradation to others


prostitution is by its very nature degrading***. but even setting that aside, considering some of the research done into the personality types that GENERALLY form the ranks of customers... in many cases, the word fits.

***EDIT: i keep trying to reword this part to indicate it is only one school of thought. but at the same time, i don't see any evidence for the the opposite school of thought, that says it is NOT degrading. so i am stuck on the wording there.

I don't see why this would be the case.


There is a big difference between 'some' and 'all'.

If you say that all people who have ever visited a prostitute are sadists, you're saying they all get off on hurting people. That's ridiculous.


Well, I haven't seen any evidence for your school of thought.

If you believe in Maslow then Adolph Hitler and Napoleon Bonaparte both achieved self-actualization.

Some food for though management consultancy, psychotherapy and psychology do have a lot in common with prostitution.
http://bytesized.wordpress.com/2008/06/ ... ostitutes/
http://clinicalphilosophy.blogspot.com/ ... ution.html
http://www.davidsmail.info/talk95a.htm
http://www.uea.ac.uk/~j339/Gestaltmoneyforlove.htm
http://bdt100.blog.co.uk/2008/03/30/wha ... r-3968944/
http://www.schaler.net/fifth/goodtherapy.html (I do love the Fritz Perls phrase in this article )

try wikipedia for starters, and then follow the links from there, if you are really and truly unaware. i don't really believe that you have NEVER seen any scholarly literature that says prostitution is degrading by its nature if you have even done a simple google search. there are even some links upthread.

according to that school of thought, people who use prostitutes would be sadists by definition. you may disagree with the premise, but the definition still fits.

i haven't seen any evidence to show that the opposite viewpoint could be true, that prostitution is NOT degrading. and i HAVE done the research. perhaps you have some sources?