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A girlfriend is not a lost puppy.

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rdos
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21 Sep 2018, 3:20 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I’ve never said to magically become NT in order to be more attractive. I have, however, been very transparent about how I manage to treat and control my ASD symptoms. It’s not magic, it’s science. Treating one’s own symptoms would be a fantastic start. Besides that, there are plenty of things people do to increase their attractiveness. Physical fitness, aesthetics/grooming/hygiene, mental health, career/finances, style/wardrobe etc etc - none of these things require you to be NT not treat your ASD symptoms.


I think you misunderstand it. Physical attractiveness, grooming, social status and fashions all are NT preferences, and so by focusing on them and accepting them as necessary means you have become an NT.

goldfish21 wrote:
All of them, and more, are very common things that single people seeking a partner work on in order to make themselves more attractive. It’s not rocket surgery stuff & doesn’t require reinventing the wheel simply because you’re ND.


Wrong. They are NT relationship preferences. As such, they have no meaning for NDs that don't want to fake being NT.

goldfish21 wrote:
You and your gf can do whatever works for the two of you, obviously. But it seems most of the single people here are seeking something resembling a traditional relationship - all of which start with attracting someone, then communicating with them, meeting them, and moving forward from there however you wish. For myself, I choose sex & have no qualms about it. Others may choose to arrange a second date. Regardless, all of these relationships, whether very short term or life long, begin in very similar ways in terms of attracting someone & communicating with them. I’d say I’m pretty good at those functions or I wouldn’t be able to do them over and over and over again with relative ease. I know what I do works & it’s not difficult for others to learn from it and replicate it for themselves. All they have to do is follow the process once they learn it. Then they can use it to do what I do, or arrange dozens of first dates, of focus on one person they want to see again and again - whatever floats your goat.


Wrong again. None of my relationships started this way. That's because I have no wish to get involved in a NT-style relationship.



Wolfram87
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21 Sep 2018, 3:44 am

So, by preferring a prosective partner to have good hygiene rather than bad, be in good physical shape rather than bad and dressing well rather than not, whilst also maintaining a good standard in these aspect myself as well, I have made myself not autistic?

Seems legit.


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rdos
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21 Sep 2018, 3:55 am

Closet Genious wrote:
To me the main problem has always been, that people overvalue relationships way too much(in particular guys idealize women to the point of insanity).
This is what creates the obssesive clinginess and entitlement.


I don't think there is a necessary link between obsessive interest and clinginess or entitlement. These are separate dimensions that exist more or less independently of each other.

Besides, I want to idealize the woman I love, so I don't see that as a problem. The flaws will be noticed anyway as time pass. And a relationship should be based on accepting each other's flaws, not trying to change each other.



rdos
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21 Sep 2018, 3:59 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
So, by preferring a prosective partner to have good hygiene rather than bad, be in good physical shape rather than bad and dressing well rather than not, whilst also maintaining a good standard in these aspect myself as well, I have made myself not autistic?

Seems legit.


I think you misunderstand it too. The issue is to care or not about those traits, not if you have them or not. So, being physically fit, dressing well and having good hygiene are things NTs will strive to achieve, but some NDs can happen to have those traits too, without having worked on it or being obsessive about being that way.

But, yes, if you have those requirements of a partner, then you are NT in that area.



Wolfram87
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21 Sep 2018, 4:04 am

But I don't "just happen to have" these things. I work actively to achieve and maintain them, and I look for them in a partner. Granted, there are other considerations that would outweigh them, but that's not the issue.

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But, yes, if you have those requirements of a partner, then you are NT in that area.


That's not how being or not being NT works.


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rdos
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21 Sep 2018, 4:15 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
But I don't "just happen to have" these things. I work actively to achieve and maintain them, and I look for them in a partner. Granted, there are other considerations that would outweigh them, but that's not the issue.

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But, yes, if you have those requirements of a partner, then you are NT in that area.


That's not how being or not being NT works.


It is. NT & ND are spectrums. A specific sub-spectrum is the relationship area. NT relationships are linked to dating, sex to bond, being fit & attractive. Some people diagnosed with ASD can be NT in the relationship area, mostly because the relationship traits are not linked to diagnosis.

There is also the aspect of culture & learning to be NT. The pressure to conform is much stronger in the relationship area, especially since there is a notion that you must be attractive, date & have sex to find a partner.



Wolfram87
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21 Sep 2018, 5:00 am

I can't decide if you're being extremely loose or extremely rigid in your thinking. NTs are one way in a department, and aspies are another, but if an aspie is in a similar way in that department then they are NT in that department by decree of arbitrarily labeling certain preferences after neurological makeup.

"Only NTs like big butts, and if an aspie likes big butts that just means they are NT in that regard because only NTs like big butts."

And I don't know about you, but in my view relationships involve a not insignificant degree of social interaction. I seem to remember the diagnostic criteria for ASD mentioning that.


Culture is a factor too, yes, but there is no learning to be NT. There is only learning to navigate a society made up predominately of NTs. And no one insists on you being attractive, but being attractive makes attracting someone easier, no one insists you date, but without going out and meeting people between four eyes it's going to be difficult evaluating potential partners for compatibility, and sex is much more interesting with a partner than without one.

This borderline tribalistic view that aspies are higher beings who have relationships via telepathy and are beyond such trivial and superficial ideas such as basic hygiene seems a bit too self-indulgent to me.


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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2018, 6:54 am

rdos wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I’ve never said to magically become NT in order to be more attractive. I have, however, been very transparent about how I manage to treat and control my ASD symptoms. It’s not magic, it’s science. Treating one’s own symptoms would be a fantastic start. Besides that, there are plenty of things people do to increase their attractiveness. Physical fitness, aesthetics/grooming/hygiene, mental health, career/finances, style/wardrobe etc etc - none of these things require you to be NT not treat your ASD symptoms.


I think you misunderstand it. Physical attractiveness, grooming, social status and fashions all are NT preferences, and so by focusing on them and accepting them as necessary means you have become an NT.

goldfish21 wrote:
All of them, and more, are very common things that single people seeking a partner work on in order to make themselves more attractive. It’s not rocket surgery stuff & doesn’t require reinventing the wheel simply because you’re ND.


Wrong. They are NT relationship preferences. As such, they have no meaning for NDs that don't want to fake being NT.

goldfish21 wrote:
You and your gf can do whatever works for the two of you, obviously. But it seems most of the single people here are seeking something resembling a traditional relationship - all of which start with attracting someone, then communicating with them, meeting them, and moving forward from there however you wish. For myself, I choose sex & have no qualms about it. Others may choose to arrange a second date. Regardless, all of these relationships, whether very short term or life long, begin in very similar ways in terms of attracting someone & communicating with them. I’d say I’m pretty good at those functions or I wouldn’t be able to do them over and over and over again with relative ease. I know what I do works & it’s not difficult for others to learn from it and replicate it for themselves. All they have to do is follow the process once they learn it. Then they can use it to do what I do, or arrange dozens of first dates, of focus on one person they want to see again and again - whatever floats your goat.


Wrong again. None of my relationships started this way. That's because I have no wish to get involved in a NT-style relationship.



Um, no. Incorrect on all accounts. These are Human traits, Not NT specific or Only traits. To suggest that ND people are uninterested in any or all of these things is a complete fallacy. Maybe YOU aren’t interested in these things - but just because you write a “report,” about it doesn’t mean it applies to any other, or all, ND people. Get real.


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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2018, 6:55 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
So, by preferring a prosective partner to have good hygiene rather than bad, be in good physical shape rather than bad and dressing well rather than not, whilst also maintaining a good standard in these aspect myself as well, I have made myself not autistic?

Seems legit.


:lol: Thank you!


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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2018, 7:00 am

rdos wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
So, by preferring a prosective partner to have good hygiene rather than bad, be in good physical shape rather than bad and dressing well rather than not, whilst also maintaining a good standard in these aspect myself as well, I have made myself not autistic?

Seems legit.


I think you misunderstand it too. The issue is to care or not about those traits, not if you have them or not. So, being physically fit, dressing well and having good hygiene are things NTs will strive to achieve, but some NDs can happen to have those traits too, without having worked on it or being obsessive about being that way.

But, yes, if you have those requirements of a partner, then you are NT in that area.


Wrong. It simply means you have those preferences in a partner. They have nothing to do with neurotype.


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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2018, 7:03 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
But I don't "just happen to have" these things. I work actively to achieve and maintain them, and I look for them in a partner. Granted, there are other considerations that would outweigh them, but that's not the issue.

Quote:
But, yes, if you have those requirements of a partner, then you are NT in that area.


That's not how being or not being NT works.


Quoted for truth. All of it.


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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2018, 7:06 am

rdos wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
But I don't "just happen to have" these things. I work actively to achieve and maintain them, and I look for them in a partner. Granted, there are other considerations that would outweigh them, but that's not the issue.

Quote:
But, yes, if you have those requirements of a partner, then you are NT in that area.


That's not how being or not being NT works.


It is. NT & ND are spectrums. A specific sub-spectrum is the relationship area. NT relationships are linked to dating, sex to bond, being fit & attractive. Some people diagnosed with ASD can be NT in the relationship area, mostly because the relationship traits are not linked to diagnosis.

There is also the aspect of culture & learning to be NT. The pressure to conform is much stronger in the relationship area, especially since there is a notion that you must be attractive, date & have sex to find a partner.


Sorry, but there is no “autistic relationship area,” or criteria for an ND relationship. There are only relationships. YOURS may not be traditional/typical, but you can’t project your own differences upon other autistics and assume that’s the way we all are and operate.


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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2018, 7:08 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
I can't decide if you're being extremely loose or extremely rigid in your thinking. NTs are one way in a department, and aspies are another, but if an aspie is in a similar way in that department then they are NT in that department by decree of arbitrarily labeling certain preferences after neurological makeup.

"Only NTs like big butts, and if an aspie likes big butts that just means they are NT in that regard because only NTs like big butts."

And I don't know about you, but in my view relationships involve a not insignificant degree of social interaction. I seem to remember the diagnostic criteria for ASD mentioning that.


Culture is a factor too, yes, but there is no learning to be NT. There is only learning to navigate a society made up predominately of NTs. And no one insists on you being attractive, but being attractive makes attracting someone easier, no one insists you date, but without going out and meeting people between four eyes it's going to be difficult evaluating potential partners for compatibility, and sex is much more interesting with a partner than without one.

This borderline tribalistic view that aspies are higher beings who have relationships via telepathy and are beyond such trivial and superficial ideas such as basic hygiene seems a bit too self-indulgent to me.


Moar truth. Read this again, rdos. Then read it again.


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21 Sep 2018, 8:26 am

One of the revelations of the L&D forum, at least to me, is that most of the male posters here have precisely the same standards of attractiveness in a partner as NTs.



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21 Sep 2018, 8:51 am

BTDT wrote:
One of the revelations of the L&D forum, at least to me, is that most of the male posters here have precisely the same standards of attractiveness in a partner as NTs.
And those same posters seem to all have the "Can't Get A Girlfriend Syndrome", wherein their standards are so exclusive as to make a girlfriend who matches them unattainable ... especially for those men who are underemployed, live with their parents, and demand qualities in other people that they do not exhibit in themselves.



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21 Sep 2018, 3:12 pm

OK GF what about my relationship do you think doesn't involve being attracted to the person (which I certainly am) or communicating with them (which we certainly do). I always find it easier to relate with people like me, which is why I do think an Aspie nation or similar would work, but that's a whole nother thread.

I think what this thread is really about is you trying to peddle your Dr Mario "cure", which hasn't helped you in getting or maintaining a relationship by your own admission!


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