"Friends with benefits" is nonsense.

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goldfish21
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03 May 2018, 2:30 pm

Ecomatt91 wrote:
Seriously people need to stop being competitive when come to money and physical looks.


Why? :?

Why is it reasonable to even think that people should go against human nature of competing for resources & attractive partners? :?


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Spiderpig
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03 May 2018, 2:34 pm

In fact, there's no chance that it'll happen: if you compete, you may lose; if you don't, you've lost already.


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goldfish21
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03 May 2018, 2:45 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
In fact, there's no chance that it'll happen: if you compete, you may lose; if you don't, you've lost already.


Yup. This. :heart:


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sly279
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03 May 2018, 3:25 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MissChess wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ Abusive and angry men aren't alphas.

Alpha men are usually calm, wise and strong willed. Think of world presidents and CEO for examples (Not Trump).

See, this is part of the problem with the discussion. "Alpha man" isn't a phrase with an accepted definition. I'm seeing posters using it to describe macho bad-boy types, and others using it to describe men with emotional, intellectual, and ethical leadership qualities.

Edited to add: could y'all guys get together and decide for yourselves what "alpha man" means to you? I don't think it's a decision for women to make, really, but if you could tell us what it means I imagine any given woman might be able to decide if that's what she goes for. :wink:


Even if you look at the most lame PUA sources, they define Alpha like I did. There's more of consensus on its definition than you think.

I haven't seen a man defining it as abusive and angry man.

Macho? Maybe, but again the cool cocky type of macho, not the aggressive type - or maybe only aggressive when it's necessary and rightful. Think of Thor in the marvel movies or the Aslan character in chronicles of Narnia.

Many abusive men are alpha though. They successful, handsome. Think 50 shades of gray.



sly279
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03 May 2018, 3:31 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Ecomatt91 wrote:
Seriously people need to stop being competitive when come to money and physical looks.


Why? :?

Why is it reasonable to even think that people should go against human nature of competing for resources & attractive partners? :?

West civilization is against human nature. So yeah it can happen. Human nature would be killing and enslaving those who you can. That was human nature. But like many other human nature things we as society ended it and don’t allow it to be given into.
We also don’t have sex in public in front of people like is human nature.
Look at republicans they want human nature back, so they want to get rid of welfare as it’s unnatural to care for those who can’t survive. It’s human nature to let less fortunate people either die or be slaves. I’m sure many ceos would love slave labor again. They are already getting as close as they can within the law to it. Barely paying people anything so they use welfare then demanding welfare be abolished.

Society is itself a violation of human nature. It’s proof we can rise above human nature.

So no peopl don’t need to be competitive they can rise above it.



AngelRho
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03 May 2018, 3:44 pm

sly279 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Ecomatt91 wrote:
Seriously people need to stop being competitive when come to money and physical looks.


Why? :?

Why is it reasonable to even think that people should go against human nature of competing for resources & attractive partners? :?

West civilization is against human nature. So yeah it can happen. Human nature would be killing and enslaving those who you can. That was human nature. But like many other human nature things we as society ended it and don’t allow it to be given into.
We also don’t have sex in public in front of people like is human nature.
Look at republicans they want human nature back, so they want to get rid of welfare as it’s unnatural to care for those who can’t survive. It’s human nature to let less fortunate people either die or be slaves. I’m sure many ceos would love slave labor again. They are already getting as close as they can within the law to it. Barely paying people anything so they use welfare then demanding welfare be abolished.

Society is itself a violation of human nature. It’s proof we can rise above human nature.

So no peopl don’t need to be competitive they can rise above it.

Not quite.

Human nature is selfish and greedy. It leans towards enslaving other humans, sure.

But...

If one is to accept slavery as part of the human condition, then one must also accept that he may potentially be enslaved himself. One must also look at the treatment of servants and assess whether any lasting benefit can come to someone with slaves.

And we all know the answer to that already. Slavery works against the best interests of society. Slavery, I believe, is preferable to, say, incarceration of criminals. The reason why is incarcerated criminals are unable to be useful in society when their freedom is taken away. State-imposed labor as a means of paying your debt to society gives you freedom while you pay restitution and provides a structured means of doing that.

But slavery based on anything else, no. It’s not healthy for society. Allow servitude as an option for criminals. Allow servitude as an option for debtors as a sort of welfare program. Allow professional servanthood for people who excel at domestic work and can potentially make a lot of money at it. There’s no good reason to enslave people otherwise.



goldfish21
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03 May 2018, 4:17 pm

sly279 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Ecomatt91 wrote:
Seriously people need to stop being competitive when come to money and physical looks.


Why? :?

Why is it reasonable to even think that people should go against human nature of competing for resources & attractive partners? :?

West civilization is against human nature. So yeah it can happen. Human nature would be killing and enslaving those who you can. That was human nature. But like many other human nature things we as society ended it and don’t allow it to be given into.
We also don’t have sex in public in front of people like is human nature.
Look at republicans they want human nature back, so they want to get rid of welfare as it’s unnatural to care for those who can’t survive. It’s human nature to let less fortunate people either die or be slaves. I’m sure many ceos would love slave labor again. They are already getting as close as they can within the law to it. Barely paying people anything so they use welfare then demanding welfare be abolished.

Society is itself a violation of human nature. It’s proof we can rise above human nature.

So no peopl don’t need to be competitive they can rise above it.


Um, no, Western civilization is not against human nature. We've just added societal/cultural & socially acceptable norms. No slavery, murder, rape etc pls & thx folks.

I watched people having sex in public at the beach a few days ago. It happens there every sunny day - but almost always out of sight of most people unless they want to go to that area a mile or so away and watch/join in. I've watched plenty of public sex acts at sex-positive parties. I've participated to an extent, too. It's the cultural norm at those sorts of parties - 95% of the time I don't participate at all; I'm there for the PARTY - dj, dancing, being high as a kite.. but just being in that environment where sex is okay = a very electrifying positive vibe experience; it's like stepping into a different world.. out of the Victorian era-ish heteronormative world on the street, and into a super gay hypersexualized warehouse party. Fun times. I may have also done some other slightly public things mostly in cars under the cover of darkness and once in an elevator on a large Ferry traveling to/from Vancouver island on a high school day trip. :lol: These things happen more than you think they might, they're just not so ultra common.

It is not unnatural to care for those who can't survive. Even animals protect the young, weak, elderly, and sick - although some of them may sacrifice themselves to save others. It's natural that people care for others. Otherwise how would children be fed/raised? They can't care for themselves and would all die if humans didn't have a nurturing nature. In terms of governments, we DO have welfare programs and we wouldn't have them at all if people didn't care about others. Some complain about paying for people who refuse to work, but in general people are willing to pay to help care for others. Same for our universal healthcare system here in Canada. We're a more compassionate society than you think.

Republicans are much more capitalist & Liberals much more socialist. That's the nature of the two political parties in your country.

Do you even recognize the irony of your final statement? :?

How does one rise above anyone else without competing and somehow being better/superior/rewarded for his or her efforts? Competition for resources (food, water, shelter etc & in modern society, money) & attractive mates is as old as humanity and will never ever EVER change.*

*Unless there's such a massive die off of humans due to war/climate change that females are willing to fornicate with ANY male they find in order to try to perpetuate the human species vs. allow the very last humans to die off completely. That's the ONLY time when men won't have to compete for resources or a mate.


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XFilesGeek
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03 May 2018, 4:40 pm

Alpha male =/= abuser.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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03 May 2018, 4:50 pm

sly279 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MissChess wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ Abusive and angry men aren't alphas.

Alpha men are usually calm, wise and strong willed. Think of world presidents and CEO for examples (Not Trump).

See, this is part of the problem with the discussion. "Alpha man" isn't a phrase with an accepted definition. I'm seeing posters using it to describe macho bad-boy types, and others using it to describe men with emotional, intellectual, and ethical leadership qualities.

Edited to add: could y'all guys get together and decide for yourselves what "alpha man" means to you? I don't think it's a decision for women to make, really, but if you could tell us what it means I imagine any given woman might be able to decide if that's what she goes for. :wink:


Even if you look at the most lame PUA sources, they define Alpha like I did. There's more of consensus on its definition than you think.

I haven't seen a man defining it as abusive and angry man.

Macho? Maybe, but again the cool cocky type of macho, not the aggressive type - or maybe only aggressive when it's necessary and rightful. Think of Thor in the marvel movies or the Aslan character in chronicles of Narnia.

Many abusive men are alpha though. They successful, handsome. Think 50 shades of gray.


Yeah, its success still puzzles me to this day.

Let’s see what the experts say:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... bout-women



The_Face_of_Boo
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03 May 2018, 4:59 pm

That Quora member explains it why she finds it sexy; she doesn’t
find him abusive:


Quote:
I find it hilarious the way men interpret that phenomenon! I can only imagine it is because either they do not have a female partner that was able to analyze herself enough to explain it to him, or else he has no female partner to try.

One thing to remind people who have never read the books- the female character lets herself be put into extremely vulnerable positions faced with Grey. Being tied up, being blindfolded, being dependent in various ways. It is scary and feels risky. In that position he could do anything- he could kill her if he so wanted! She sees a room that looks like a torture chamber, and it takes great courage to put herself in such vulnerable positions there.

But what happens? He doesn’t hurt her. He arouses her body with his own, or touching her with things that could hurt her, and then doesn’t. There is the tension and apprehension… which results only in a man not abusing that power. He shows her ways in which control can be pleasurable. He will use a vibrator until she is about to orgasm, then stop right before… waiting, then starting to use it again, showing her how pleasure can be longer with control. We read a whip “sliding over” her stomach or buttocks… it is sliding over, not hitting or injuring! He has ultimate control over his own aggressive and violent drives! He can be on the edge, totally able to inflict hurt, and controls himself.

THIS is the important point! A man with total self mastership and control over his base drives and impulsions is SOOOO sexy! It is a man who can be trusted, whose word can be relied on, who one can be totally open and vulnerable with, and know they will not abuse that power!

The books delve into his past, coming from a troubled childhood with a drug addict mother, becoming a teen with no self control, getting into trouble with violence and such…. until a dominatrix teaches him about self control.

Ana, at the beginning, is clumsy and unsure of herself. The story opens with her stepping in to do a favor for a friend (she can’t say no), actually tripping and falling into this guys office. She has no control over herself or her life.

By the last book, she is a confident and self mastered woman, able to fight and outrun “bad guys” with a grin- drive Grey’s fast car with skill….

Grey’s financial success is indicative of a man who has mastered himself.

I’m so sick of hearing boys complain that women just want men for their money! But a man who has no self control, has no self discipline, will never be rich. He will make impulsive and foolish choices, he will let his base appetites and drives sabotage his own choices and plans. No, not all rich men are self possessed, but the men that are, are rarely poor.

Any woman who wishes to be with a man she can trust, who has integrity and self control, who can handle power without falling into the trap of abusing it, would do well to look at their success in the outer world. Flying a helicopter, driving a fast car, running a corporation calls for self control and mastership.

That’s the draw of Grey. A man who you could open up to, lean on, and trust that he won’t use that moment to destroy or hurt you. That can channel his aggressive drives into constructive and beneficial actions.

Of course it is easy to simply say women want to be hurt and abused by men they can get money from. That is surely more comforting to tell yourself if you are a man who doesn’t have such self mastership and sees the prospect as too big to even try developing.


https://www.quora.com/Why-do-women-like ... es-of-Grey



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03 May 2018, 5:01 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Alpha male =/= abuser.


Oh, when an alpha male does it, it’s not called abuse; it’s called putting someone in their place.


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Ecomatt91
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03 May 2018, 5:29 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Ecomatt91 wrote:
Seriously people need to stop being competitive when come to money and physical looks.


Why? :?

Why is it reasonable to even think that people should go against human nature of competing for resources & attractive partners? :?


Physical looks isn't a benefit to evolution. People need brains! Imagine if everyone is dumb on this planet who are good at sports, cheating on their partners and play poker twice a week. Would they expect to protect Earth from future alien attacks?

The looks debate seems teeny and childish in young adulthood. Talk to your parents, grandparents and someone in their same age cohort of what they think of what we have been talking about. Physical attractive is super important to get everyone partnered up while the unattractive ones die in ecological war?

1 in 60 people have Autism across the world, and that ratio is getting smaller and smaller. So would we become smarter no matter how we look? What is so important about being Autistic, including being accepted to be part of wider society? Its our intelligence and talents. Like Bill Gates on creating computers. He did it! Thanks to him! He saved us.

Pouring money on someone who is privileged and attractive isn't how society works. Unfortunately this is a reality case. This where people think people with money will make things happy and fulfilling. This is sadistic and stubborn perspective of them. Likewise people in my Meetup group 'Young and Socially Anxious' (well I am not anxious), they aren't physically good looking and also they tell me same story on how the society mistreating them. Think of root causes of anxiety. Can be insecure, traumatic and peer pressure.

People in their 20's in today's generation and being in 21st century are selfish, narcissistic, competitive and dumbfounded. No offense saying this but that is the reality. I live in NT world, and I see it all the sh%$ going on. Lot of socially smart but dumb people have lot of troubles like with police for getting arrested in protest rallies, their friends don't judge their problems but never learn from their mistakes which would take toll on their futures. I.e. getting arrested more often would not land you a good job. This is careless and selfish.

So money and physical attraction is never a thing. Its illogical, disorganised and slack. You are all many Aspies, should know about this.



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03 May 2018, 6:32 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Alpha male =/= abuser.


Oh, when an alpha male does it, it’s not called abuse; it’s called putting someone in their place.


Believe what you like, but being a confident, extroverted male who values physical prowess doesn't make one an abuser.

In nature, most of the violence happens at the beta level, not the alpha level.


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Ecomatt91
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03 May 2018, 6:41 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Alpha male =/= abuser.


Oh, when an alpha male does it, it’s not called abuse; it’s called putting someone in their place.


Believe what you like, but being a confident, extroverted male who values physical prowess doesn't make one an abuser.

In nature, most of the violence happens at the beta level, not the alpha level.


Don't you know the difference between alpha and beta? You know what they means?

Here a useful link about it: http://tobealpha.com/alpha-vs-beta-males/

Alpha males are triggers to violence due to their competitive nature while beta males react to violence.



goldfish21
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03 May 2018, 7:10 pm

Ecomatt91 wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Alpha male =/= abuser.


Oh, when an alpha male does it, it’s not called abuse; it’s called putting someone in their place.


Believe what you like, but being a confident, extroverted male who values physical prowess doesn't make one an abuser.

In nature, most of the violence happens at the beta level, not the alpha level.


Don't you know the difference between alpha and beta? You know what they means?

Here a useful link about it: http://tobealpha.com/alpha-vs-beta-males/

Alpha males are triggers to violence due to their competitive nature while beta males react to violence.


Wrong. I’m 6’2” 202.5lbs approx 12.5% body fat and I know a lot of similarly, or stronger, built Alpha males who are successful in their careers/businesses, social lives, finances, sex lives etc and not one single one of them is violent or an abuser - even though many are also martial artists and some spar competitively. It takes an incredible amount of discipline & self control to to the diet and exercise required to build a a a strong healthy body, and even more to train in martial arts etc. Every single one of us uses our strength to lift others up, not push them down. We’re defenders and protectors, not attackers.


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sly279
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03 May 2018, 8:33 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Alpha male =/= abuser.

Didn’t say it did just Inch of abusers are also alpha males.