What is the main reason why guys have to do the approaching?

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There may be some girls like that with 'boyfriends who really love them,' but there are also a lot with no friends at all, much less romantic friends.

There are also numerous women like that who are targeted by every user, controller & scam-merchant boyfriend out there, unfortunately. These people can sense vulnerability a mile off and never seem to have trouble finding their next victim.

Plus abusers do try to isolate their partner socially, by stopping them seeing their friends, engineering arguments with their family etc. If their partner already has no friends there's no-one there to tell them that their relationship is unhealthy is there?

And loneliness skews your judgement on who is a person worthy of you and who isn't.

So I would imagine it isn't difficult for a shy, nervous, isolated lass to get a "boyfriend", but is it going to be the right kind of man who is attracted to her and for the right reasons?

madsciencemuseum.com: Would You Go To Bed With Me Tonight?
Case in point:
Propositioning strangers works for girls in 75% and for boys in 0% of the attempts.

madsciencemuseum.com: Shock the Puppy!
Case in point:
The females went along according to what they were told and the only ones to protest bad orders were some of the males.

Thus girls has a serious advantage in propositioning and will follow social code to the bitter end.

Don't like it? crack the system dude

Look, it's VERY simple. All men don't judge women on their social skills. All NT women judge men on theirs. Having ASD seriously impairs those skills, leaving us in the dust. So, fight the battle we're forced to face or accept being single forever. That's the only choice we have.

@ JRR: Only men get to be Aspies?
Aspie women do exist, and do have romantic difficulties - not the same ones you have, but not less difficult. That social training that is mentioned above, the pressure from day one to obey instead of exploring, means that we're more thoroughly trained to fit in than Aspie men and thus less likely to be diagnosed. Also, shyness isn't as looked down upon in women as it is in men. However, as was also previously mentioned, the inability to judge intent means that we're set up for abuse quite easily.

Wrt. propositioning: that's great, for women who like one-night stands (hint: a minority).

yes, but very few aspie women have romantic difficulties. The one's that do probaly are ugly or also suffer from ocd or have some strange obession, or isolate themselves from society.

Dude, do you even read what you write?
First, it is incorrect that "very few" aspie women have romantic difficulties. Again, go lurk on the women's forum for a while. Second, why should their appearance matter? Is it ok for a man to be alone if he doesn't look like Keanu Reeves? Third, they are /aspies// Social isolation and odd obsessions are diagnostic.

[quote="LKL"]Dude, do you even read what you write?
First, it is incorrect that "very few" aspie women have romantic difficulties. Again, go lurk on the women's forum for a while. Second, why should their appearance matter? Is it ok for a man to be alone if he doesn't look like Keanu Reeves? Third, they are /aspies// Social isolation and odd obsessions are diagnostic.[/quotei
so where are these suppose single can't find a date aspie women then. I did look at the women forum and I didn't see any ''I can't get a date topic'' I only look on page 1. well, men do care alot about looks, so if a man finds a women attractive he is willing to let alot of things slide. Like I said before if an aspie women also has severe ocd then I can believe she can be single.
I believe only women with severe ocd or some kind obsession behavior are the only type of women who can't get or keep a date.
No man wants to be with a woman who is also washing her hands or freak out every time you touch the door.
or no man wants to be with a woman who is obsessed with unicorns and all she talks about is unicorns and she collect unicorns and everything she does revolves around unicorns. Them are the type of women that are truly single. Not any aspie women, unless they have ocd. are going to get a date, that the god given truth. If you miss L don't got a date then you need to get out more but you as a woman can get man it simple. stop deny it.

Yes, this is it. And, roughly the point I'm making. I've COMPLETELY had my sh*t together, been in perfect shape, dressed flawlessly, carried conversation for hours and hours, gotten a number and it ended up being a black hole, more times than I could remember, all because (for what it seems) I wasn't "charming enough." This is a reality no ASD woman has to face. Men don't judge women on how they "entertain" us. We just like women for who they are. As men, we have to do a one-man-show and it's often STILL not enough. And, to top, a lot of ASD makes us be "quirky" in ways most NTs find as attractive as wearing a skunk around our neck.

On top of LKL's post, I would like to add this: women are by default expected to be the relationship experts.

You guys complain about hard difficult is it to get a date, get a girl interested in you or actually get a girlfriend?

Then imagine how goddamn difficult it is to actually maintain an entire relationship (let alone how to do it over months or years) - while being fully expected by a guy to magically know how to make them work - and work perfectly - when we have the same amount of difficulties as you do in terms of reading facial expression, body language, tone of voice, emotions and of course having no knowledge of actually how to navigate one instinctually, what the rules are, what we should do or not do, theory of mind, emoathy, etc. We are expected to know how to do much more when it gets to that stage and basically run it from there on by ourselves - and men's egos are very fragile in that regard - it makes the entire thing both a minefield and a nightmare as an aspie woman.

See, there's (at least part of) the problem. You're trying to put on a show, when it's behaving authentically that leads to successful relationships. Casual sex is another matter of course, being fake helps with that quite a bit, but I'm gonna assume we're talking about actual relationships.

There's the obvious problem with putting on the "one-man-show," which is that nobody can maintain that forever. Eventually even those guys who are the best at it, aspies being probably the absolute worst at it, will tire of it eventually and drop the act. And of course the women will move on once they realize that a guy isn't who he presented himself as.

But the real issue is that you've got the wrong priorities when it comes to establishing a relationship. Your focus is on impressing women, trying to show them what a good catch you are, show them how right you are for them, when what you should be focused on is deciding whether they're right for you.

A guy who tries to impress a woman will put his energy into "entertaining" her, as you put it. A guy giving a woman a chance to impress him will put his energy into getting to know her. Can you guess which of those women find more attractive?

A guy trying to show how right he is for a girl comes across as insecure. A guy trying to decide whether a girl is right for him comes across as confident. Again, which do they find more appealing?

And it's the "trying to decide" part I mentioned that's key. Rather than treating it as a foregone conclusion that you want to be with any given girl, and basing your behavior on that, the focus of your interactions with her should be on determining whether or not you really want her in the first place. When you go into your interactions with a woman already having decided that you want to be with her it makes her feel as though pretty much any other woman could be substituted for her.

The average woman doesn't want a man who feels like he has to be with her (and the ones who do want that are the sh***y manipulative types that you should avoid anyway). She wants a man who, after putting real energy into getting to know her, chooses to be with her. Women like a man who has, and acts as though he has, options. And even if a guy feels like it's a choice between some particular girl or no one at all, he should remember (and act like) that is still a choice.

Pure Gold.
This needs to go into the essentials sticky.

Especially the bolded bit: women can pick up on that from a mile away - it's one of the biggest turn offs that there is.
Among my cirlce of girlfriends, they uised to call guys who would substitute any woman with another as "cabs" - because they would take anyone - everyone could see they had their light on. Basically as long as it was the right time for them, they didn't care who it was - anyone would do.

Ok, so, I know how this works for NTs, but for us, being "ourselves" isn't a solution, either (which is what you're effectively saying - it's not like one puts on a "show" from the start. That only happens only as a result of her not contributing much to the date, herself). We don't have that natural "charm" that NTs have, since we behave differently by default. We talk too fast, speak about subjects they're not into, don't give the best eye contact, don't have the humor and wit which makes things work. Our "normal" isn't hot, so the garbage talk of "just be yourself" (I'm not saying you're saying that - I've heard it, in general, a thousand times) doesn't work. That cannot be forgotten. So, considering that, in combination of what you're saying (mind you, I'm not disagreeing here), are you basically indicating that most ASD guys are f*cked?

P.S. Per the second comment afterwards - As I indicated, making an effort does not mean "any woman would substitute" (you don't know how CRAZY that thought drives me). It means we like you and don't want you to go! It's the exact OPPOSITE of what you're thinking. I don't give extra effort to girls I don't care about. I just leave. How twisted can you get??

I'm not indicating that at all. I will agree that ASDs don't mix well with the traditional male romantic role, and that guys with them face unique challenges and much work far far harder than most to find a partner. But I think that the vast majority can, if they put in that work (and, yeah, it's a lot of time and effort), succeed romantically.

I also don't think that the difficulty comes as a result of women not "contributing much to the date." If she's not putting the same effort into getting to know you as you are her, then that's a sign that she's just not as interested as you are, and is thus not the right person.

As for the unfortunate aspie social tendencies, I think most can train themselves to overcome, or at least make accomodations for, most of them. The eye contact thing can be practiced. As can the problems with speech speed and inflection. And, as for humor and wit, people will overlook their lack if you are friendly enough. You'd be surprised at just how many personality "quirks" women will overlook if they find other aspects of you appealing enough.

The trick is figuring out what appealing traits you possess or can develop, and then learning to play those up. But that's gonna be different for every guy.



I get what you're saying here, I do. My instinct is the same, when I really like a girl. I want to impress her. But it's just not what women respond to. They're not interested in yet another guy trying show them how great he is; but the guy who gives them a chance to show how great they are? That's different and interesting to them.

It really is. I suspect its more common for women to experience, just based on the standard roles most people adhere to. But I've had women accept my advances, then give off the vibe that any guy would've been good enough. Not a pleasant feeling. It takes me a long time to figure out when stuff like that is happening, but I'm not surprised that women would learn to spot it quickly.

Where's your area?!