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Beta males - why do woman dislike them?

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auntblabby
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06 Sep 2015, 4:04 am

Spiderpig wrote:
x_amount_of_words wrote:
Humans are dumb but they're just animals so I guess they can't help it :mrgreen:


I used to make that kind of insulting remarks about people more powerful than me---presumably alphas---I didn't like when they couldn't hear me, even using it as a way to bond with other low-status people like me. Then I learned it's cowardly and you really should either not say it or think it at all, and act consistently with your thoughts, or say it to their faces so they can respond the way they see fit, which will usually involve using their high status and power to put you in your place---for example, beating you up.

that is just submitting to their domination without any resistance.



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06 Sep 2015, 4:11 am

It's ... interesting so many people tend to assume alpha males are less intelligent than betas, when evidence suggests it should more often than not be the other way round. I myself used to indulge in that gratuitous and dangerous belief. Of course, since intelligence is intangible and not very clearly defined, it's very tempting to exaggerate yours and that of your friends, and to downplay that of your foes. However, when you actually have to confront the latter, it usually proves to be a costly mistake.

Compound this with the blind and unqualified assertion that intelligence is better than brute force and you have a fine recipe for staying naïve and defenseless without even knowing it, and wondering why noöne respects you.


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314pe
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06 Sep 2015, 4:47 am

Catlover5 wrote:
Men with e.g. bad hygiene, dirty clothes, body odour, bad breath and who don't take care of their appearance are unlikely to get dates because those are instant turn-offs for women.

Also men with bad posture, odd walk and monotonous voice. Those are more relevant for us aspies and a lot harder to change. In an ideal world, all people who put effort into dating succeed at least sometimes, but it's not true in real life and it's unfair for unsuccessful people to say that they don't care and don't try.



trayder
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06 Sep 2015, 6:04 am

Spiderpig wrote:
It's ... interesting so many people tend to assume alpha males are less intelligent than betas, when evidence suggests it should more often than not be the other way round. I myself used to indulge in that gratuitous and dangerous belief. Of course, since intelligence is intangible and not very clearly defined, it's very tempting to exaggerate yours and that of your friends, and to downplay that of your foes. However, when you actually have to confront the latter, it usually proves to be a costly mistake.

Compound this with the blind and unqualified assertion that intelligence is better than brute force and you have a fine recipe for staying naïve and defenseless without even knowing it, and wondering why noöne respects you.


It depends on what you mean by intelligence and whether all autistics think as you seem to suggest. I am by no means against the use of force to subdue for self protection and have used it in the past, effectively. However, there is no doubt in my mind that a more objectively conscious specimen is less likely to be driven by instinct than a subjective specimen and consequently more likely to have a higher rate of accuracy as regards problem solving. We see this with certain autistics. It is simply a case of the brains energies being focussed as opposed to being spread over a number of priorities.

This person may not fit the classic alpha profile but given the right circumstances, could nonetheless still be leadership material. Personally, I see little point in concerning myself unduly with my physical prowess and equally consider a woman who needs me to fulfil this role unnecessarily, baggage.



Catlover5
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06 Sep 2015, 8:59 am

314pe wrote:
Also men with bad posture, odd walk and monotonous voice. Those are more relevant for us aspies and a lot harder to change. In an ideal world, all people who put effort into dating succeed at least sometimes, but it's not true in real life and it's unfair for unsuccessful people to say that they don't care and don't try.

Those could be turn-offs for some women as well, but it depends on the individual, some women may not mind it so much. But it all comes down to one thing: if she doesn't love you for who you are, or you don't love her for who she is, then you're not meant for each other. It's about loving each other warts and all. By that, I don't mean that they have to love every single thing about each other, because nobody is perfect. It's all about who you are on the inside. If a woman really loves you, she shouldn't care about your flaws, she should just love you, and vice versa.



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06 Sep 2015, 9:09 am

trayder wrote:
It depends on what you mean by intelligence and whether all autistics think as you seem to suggest.


No, I’m not suggesting anything about all autistics. I didn’t even mention autism. I’m just observing many people post about alpha males with the explicit assumption that they’re less intelligent than betas, and I’ve often seen this kind of characterization in real life, too. Naturally, I disagree.


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06 Sep 2015, 9:20 am

NERD – Intelligence is better than brute force.
BULLY – (Strangles him and knocks his head repeatedly against the wall, causing him enough brain damage for him to be now less intelligent than the bully.)
NERD – (Wakes up, barely able to speak. Gasps.)
BULLY – See? What good did your intelligence do you? Now I’m both stronger and smarter than you. The world has no use for you. (Throws him into a waste container and closes the lid.)


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06 Sep 2015, 11:19 am

Spiderpig wrote:
BULLY – (Strangles him and knocks his head repeatedly against the wall, causing him enough brain damage for him to be now less intelligent than the bully.)

It's also stupid to speak like all alphas are stupid bullies. Some might be, but some people here just say that to have some sort of "revenge", I think.



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06 Sep 2015, 11:29 am

Huh? I’m precisely arguing that alphas don’t need to be any less intelligent than betas; in fact, I’d expect them to be more intelligent on average. I’m not suggesting they’re all bullies, either. That post is about the oft-repeated assertion that intelligence is better than brute force. I had to assume the nerd is initially smarter than the bully, for the sake of argument, because otherwise the former would have nothing going for him.


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06 Sep 2015, 11:55 am

Spiderpig wrote:
Huh? I’m precisely arguing that alphas don’t need to be any less intelligent than betas; in fact, I’d expect them to be more intelligent on average. I’m not suggesting they’re all bullies, either. That post is about the oft-repeated assertion that intelligence is better than brute force. I had to assume the nerd is initially smarter than the bully, for the sake of argument, because otherwise the former would have nothing going for him.

I misunderstood your example, we agree then. I think a lot of people here also misunderstand what beta means. Most people are beta.



JNathanK
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06 Sep 2015, 12:23 pm

auntblabby wrote:
JNathanK wrote:
I think good posture and smiling and confidence are all important things to work on, but I dont see any need to classify or categorize them into a type. Instead just work on that more.

but that is just a fragile façade unless one has something to back them up. :idea:


Then find something to back it up. Just feel confident in being a human being who has only one life to live and who has a right to be alive.



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06 Sep 2015, 1:26 pm

BeyondLogic wrote:
I think my previous post may have made it seem like I was completely dissing beta males. I'd like to point out that I'd be more than willing to date another beta male and by far the best trait that betas seem to have is intelligence, which I think is very important. In fact, the only reason why I was thinking that I might need an alpha male is for protection from other alpha males ha! Interesting.


So how exactly does one go about figuring out if he is alpha or beta version? Should I go get a physical at my doctors office, maybe some blood work? :lol:



BeyondLogic
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06 Sep 2015, 1:34 pm

Crazyfool wrote:
BeyondLogic wrote:
I think my previous post may have made it seem like I was completely dissing beta males. I'd like to point out that I'd be more than willing to date another beta male and by far the best trait that betas seem to have is intelligence, which I think is very important. In fact, the only reason why I was thinking that I might need an alpha male is for protection from other alpha males ha! Interesting.


So how exactly does one go about figuring out if he is alpha or beta version? Should I go get a physical at my doctors office, maybe some blood work? :lol:


Are you assertive? Do you stand up for yourself? Do you let people walk all over you? Do you defer to other men and women? I think answers to these questions may shed some light.



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06 Sep 2015, 2:31 pm

BeyondLogic wrote:
Crazyfool wrote:
BeyondLogic wrote:
I think my previous post may have made it seem like I was completely dissing beta males. I'd like to point out that I'd be more than willing to date another beta male and by far the best trait that betas seem to have is intelligence, which I think is very important. In fact, the only reason why I was thinking that I might need an alpha male is for protection from other alpha males ha! Interesting.


So how exactly does one go about figuring out if he is alpha or beta version? Should I go get a physical at my doctors office, maybe some blood work? :lol:


Are you assertive? Do you stand up for yourself? Do you let people walk all over you? Do you defer to other men and women? I think answers to these questions may shed some light.


Lol I was only joking. I'm aware of the attributes it takes to be an alpha male



The_Face_of_Boo
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06 Sep 2015, 2:38 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
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I'm pretty sure a smart woman still prefers a partner who can beat the s**t out of a stranger coming to make trouble, to one who would instead get his ass handed to him.

Beatings speak louder than words.


voleregard wrote:
Holly (at dinner party celebrating her acceptance into grad school in Applied Psycho-Neurobiology): "Thank you so much for this lovely reception. I'd like you to meet my boyfriend, Grog."

Grog: "Ungh."

Amber (Party host): "So Grog, what do you think about Holly's early findings that increasing endoribonuclease L expression in C2C12 myogenic cells during their multipotency phase favors their adipogenic potential?

Grog: "Ughh. Where beer?"

Amber: <points off to the left>
<affectionately watches Grog amble toward the beer, knocking lots of thin, intelligent-looking people out of his way with his shoulders.>
<whispers to Holly:> "He's so dreamy, Holly. I bet he's real handy in all those dive bars, pool halls, and back alleys where you like to hang out. I'd like one just like him, but I bet they're all taken."

Holly: "Yeah, he can really beat the sh*t out of criminals. When we talk about my research and he grunts his reply, I know it's like talking to a dog about nuclear medicine, but I know I'll be safe and our children will be strong dominators. What's important is that my children will fulfill my dreams for them of being able to play football really well and be able to beat up every other kid on the playground. Because we both know that survival is what means most to us women."

Amber: "You're so right, Holly." <looks back toward Grog. sighs in envy at Amber's great catch. walks off toward beer.> "Oh, Grog, I have another question for you…"


Straw men and jokes aside, here's y'all an example of what I meant:

BeyondLogic wrote:
The only guy I ever seriously dated was a beta and I found it to be problematic. There were a few times in our relationship when other males were being disrespectful towards me and sometimes being kind of predatory. My beta bf could not even stand up to these guys or help me out in these situations! It was very disappointing. A girl wants a guy that can protect her from other men and stand up for her if needed.

Also at the moment, there is a beta guy who is VERY interested in me. Something about his desperation and pushiness is a major turn off. It's some kind of natural instinct where I feel repulsed by desperate behavior(Not sure if all women are like this though). To go along with it, he's also very unkempt-looking and slightly overweight.

Not to say that this is how all betas are! My first bf was very tidy and pretty good-looking, but I'm just giving my own experience to help give other guys an idea of what turns me off being a woman. Not all women are the same of course.



That's probably why my short height might be seen as a very unattractive trait, there were even girls who are shorter than me told me I am too short.

I bet that It is not enough for the typical girl to perceive me as taller than her (inches wise) but she has to perceive me not physically weaker than most men, hence unable to protect her.



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06 Sep 2015, 2:48 pm

I’m about average height, or perhaps very slightly above it, and still often feel it’s not enough, because, socially awkward as I am, I know anyone physically able to beat the s**t out of me will eventually get pissed off enough with me to do it if I interact long enough with them. I’d probably feel much more confident if I were fitter and had some training in some martial art, but I didn’t think enough about these topics when I was younger, so I didn’t consider them as important as I do now, and did nothing about it. I’m not really sure I could have done anything even if I had wanted to. Now I can improve a bit, but it’s definitely not going to make a significant change. Whoever can beat me up now will always be able to beat me up.


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