I don't want to date poor people

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Of course, ever notice how the rich tend to hire maids and servants or people to keep their yard maintained?

Maybe but sadly there's not part time job that pays the same as a full time job. I get burnt out from my part time job. 5-7 hour shift, 4 hour transit time. I often go 10-12 hours without eating actual food. Instead my intake during that is popcorn(which I've been told we can't process). I couldn't handle working 8+ hours a day plus 4 hour transit for 5-7 days a week. As is on days I work I don't get to do anything but work and days off I have to do arrands and laundry so I can keep working. Maybe get to play games for a day a week if lucky back when the give me two days off in a row. I'd only be good for dying in war,but the far right didn't even think I should be allowed that and factory jobs are all but gone in the USA.

Yea. I'd rather work part time than full time and have my body go to s**t. I can function with a 30 hour work week as long as I don't get horribly depressed or have sleep issues. It will definitely go downhill fast if I can't get to sleep before midnight and have to get up at 6 several days in a row. It seems like no matter how tired I am, I'm always a night-owl and never an early-bird. I just can't function on 6 hours. I didn't choose my body to be like this. At some point you just have to accept how you are and tell the people who give you s**t to f**k off and die. Really. I just hate people sometimes. And when I say hate, I mean hate.

Don't know. Maybe the real world beat her down and drove some sense into her. She was 19 at the time she started this thread. If she still has the same attitude, I would hope she is at least standing on her own two feet, not calling herself "middle class" just because mommy and daddy are middle class.

Striving for social status is not new, nor is it the fault of the feminist movement—and fewer job opportunities is not the fault of women being “forced” to work, either. (In fact, all the pressure, obligation, and shame on women you're talking about is not exactly a thing.) There are lots of socio-economic factors that have brought or driven more women into the workforce over time. Among them: war, the Depression, recessions, capitalism, materialism, and the pressure from some sectors of society to have children whether you could afford to feed, clothe, or send them to college or not.

In addition, some women have gone to work because they wanted to contribute more to their family’s/community’s/nation’s well-being, they wanted a little extra cash, they didn’t want to be dependent on a man for their survival, and—wait for it—they felt called to do something more challenging than sit on their asses and knit whilst sporting their pointy bras and lacy aprons. (Yes, some people actually find at least some forms of employment to be meaningful and fulfilling.) Feminist empowerment simply meant reminding everyone that they could actually do those other things--and should, if they want to--regardless of what some people may say. It meant that they didn’t have to take crap from ass-grabbing bosses who disregarded their intelligence and abilities, either. I know--how uppity of them!

As you pointed out, modern technology has made some people’s jobs basically obsolete. Well, that’s not new; the Industrial Revolution made the type of work that people used to do for basic survival (like working on the farm or in the family business) more-or-less obsolete years before women stepped into the larger workplace en masse, so don’t pretend that the social structures that put/keeps some people at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder is the fault of women in the workplace. Most people in the Western world have, for a long time, been seeking ways to get more for less, and social rank is simply human/animal nature—and has been for millennia.

You seem to have a narrow, hyperbolic view of the world and the workplace, including your oversimplification about more people and fewer jobs. If you look around, you will see that job opportunities come and go, change and evolve; the business world is more-or-less in constant flux. Though a core problem (as you said) most certainly is wealthy potential employers who don’t want to create more jobs, almost any unemployment problem involves many other factors like the location of jobs, motivation to do those jobs, skills/education required, salary vs. cost of living/cost of lifestyle, and so on. Your perspective is limiting the validity of a lot of your arguments. Not everyone is as miserable as you seem to think they are.

I’m sorry you’ve had such bad experiences at work, but it’s not the world's fault. I think you’re on the right track when you mention seeking your balance, and I hope you find it. It may not be easy, but it is possible.

I'm not blaming feminism. I agree with feminism for the most part. It just seems like it has lead to people now being forced to work more just to survive. Granted, it wasn't initially that way. I think initially it was driven by choice. But then the vultures keyed in on the new trend and pushed down wages to the point where now both parents are forced to work full time in dull miserable service jobs (and that is ON TOP OF all the trappings of managing a home and family).

Of course it is ridiculous to blame "the world". The "the world" isn't a sentient being. I do think I can blame our society for not wanting to come up with better solutions. Part of the problem is politicians only cater to the majority. You can hear it with all the talk of the supposed majority "middle class" (which is actually disappearing slowly but surely). There really isn't a lot of caring for the people who don't fit into the capitalist mold. I'm sorry if you want to bash me, but I have a right to feel. I won't be told how I'm supposed to feel. If you were in my shoes you probably would feel the same. It is always the people who have managed to have a life that is not misery that lecture down towards those who struggle. I'm pretty tired of it frankly. I'm not out to change the world, but If I think the world is f****d up I think I have the right to say so. I'm so happy for all the people who just love the current system. Just be grateful you've managed so well, okay? Stop talking down to those who haven't. I don't have much patience left for it. I really don't.

I didn’t intend to talk down to you. However, if you want to play the semantic game (“the world is not a sentient being,”) I will certainly call you out on that; I'm not dumb, either.

You may feel bashed, but I feel that I’m just defending myself and other women in general, as well as debating some of your other statements. You absolutely have the right to be angry, and you definitely have the right to express that anger, but you are wrong if you think that I love the way our economy works, that I’m not grateful for what I have, and that I don’t care about you. Things are most definitely screwed up, and you are in a truly crappy situation. Like I said before, I hope things get better for you. Much better.

Okay. I really want to respond to this point-by-point.

In the past it wasn't a requirement for both parents to work full time while rearing a child and taking care of a house. This change was forced. I don't think it's fully the fault of feminism. It was never intentional, but somehow it became the norm that both parents work. This allowed employers to push wages on the bottom tier very low.


But so many women appear to have a BIG problem with a man depending on them for survival. Hell, they won't even accept a man that makes less than them. Women have the right to date whoever the hell they want, but others have a right to not think very highly of them as human beings. To point out a double standard is not misogyny. Feminists are just programmed to be overly sensitive and view themselves as perfect angels who can do no wrong. And before you go and accuse me of picking sides, I called out Retro on his misogynistic attitude when nobody else seemed to care. He seems to believe women are social status tokens to acquire. He's also bitched about not being able to find "attractive women" interested in him. I just happen to believe in real equality, true "social justice", not BS double standards.


Yea. As older jobs become obsolete, new ones appear. It just so happens that the new ones tend to increasingly fall into the non-essential category. The west's economy survives because people continue to buy s**t they don't REALLY need. What happens when there's a panic? People stop buying frivolous things and workers get laid off en-mass. Is this a functional use of resources and manpower?

Also, I never blamed women. I just get annoyed at particular women. Snotty women who jump in and defend people like the OP. If the OP is going to opening make such a statement, others are free to share their opinion of her as a human being.


I think a should be free to express some hyperbole for the sense of venting after reading 20+ pages of steaming s**t. This thread put me in a bad mood. Sorry. I don't fully understand how most people aren't miserable. I often don't feel I'm even of the same species. If you can easily cope, then good for you. Be thankful. Leave those who can't alone.


Already addressed this.

I wrote the last message before I read this. Sorry if I appeared to lash out at women in general. I was just upset at the haughty attitudes of a bunch of them in this thread. Honestly, the men weren't much better. I really just shouldn't read this s**t. The bad apples ruin all the good discussion for me and live a taste of festering bile.

I don't think that's the case now. I know some people leave after Year 10 without a graduation certificate but choose to simply work or pursue other forms of study like TAFE.

Leaving after Year 10 is 'dropping out' but doesn't count as truant aka the school and government allow you to do it. It doesn't make much sense to me but this is just what it's like.

So if you're still 15 when leaving school after year 10 you can't get on youth allowance until at least 16.

If you stay in school, you can only go on youth allowance after the end of year 12.

It's a bit silly, though, as parents also lose their payment for their child when they turn 16.

Mum is no longer legally my 'carer' as a disabled person since age 16 and so that meant it was only until I was 17 I got on Y/A.

It must suck for the people with no job who graduated HS at 18, meaning for 2 years their family had less income coming in because the government cut their parents off.

It's probably assumed most young people have a part-time job by 16, but that's a 'one-size fits all' approach that's unfair for some.

"After a few years I went onto the DSP, even though my status as "disabled" had more to do with what I believed I could do than my actual capabilities."

Yes, I am sort of going through this right now.

By all means not ready for work, yet, I can't handle it and have severe Agoraphobia, but I'm really not THAT far off from being ready.

By this I mean it wouldn't take 5 years before I'm ready for work or anything, 1-2 years max.

The reason I'm trying to get onto disability though is for a few reasons:

1. To end pressure for me to get a job, as the pressure placed on Y/A and people on the dole is intense.

2. To slowly and overtime work on overcoming my difficulties than just jumping into work, which is what I'd pretty much have to do if I was on Y/A or the dole as again, the pressure.

3. To not be judged by society as a 'dole bludger' and also, while I still believe women would judge me for being on DSP, at the very least I'm not just some lazy 'dole bludger' who is choosing not to work but genuinely disabled enough to be on DSP.

Some women would be okay with dating a guy on the DSP because he has a reason not to be working, but not okay with dating one on the dole.

Though I know it'll severely limit dating options.

I'm not going to stay this way forever. By at least age 22-25 I'll want to have a part-time job of some kind.

4. To live life at my own pace and work when I'm truly ready.

5. Extra money.

6. I can still study while being on DSP. My plan is to be on DSP as long as possible and spend the next 5-10 years studying and volunteering. This can all boost my resume and once I finally figure out what I want to do career-wise, by the time this happens I'd have the degree in my field and a decent amount of other education and experience.

I'd be financially decent due to living at home all this time (which Mum's okay with).

The only issue is avoiding university debts.

"That's a good definition and certainly ambitious girls will like you better if you're ambitious (and vice versa)."

Yeah, I like the idea of an 'ambitious' and work hard, play-hard kind of girl, but I only feel I can't live up to ambitious females because they have higher standards and make me look like the unambitious lazy uneducated NEET by comparison.

Generally I only gravitate towards and attract unambitious girls, as shown by most of the girl's I crushed on back in high school.

It's not like I'm choosing this - often I'm attracted to them and they just happen to have multiple disorders like OCD/BPD/Depression/Anxiety and have had or still have a 'hard life'.

I appear to have...decent compatibility with them.

In recent times I've begun to like the idea of being the more 'ambitious' one as long as she doesn't expect me to be 'too ambitious'.

Besides, I have heard and it is in my experiences most young girl and women are 'hypergamous', that is they 'date up' so someone equal in my level of ambition might choose to date somewhere higher than me. That's why I'd be okay with dating a girl making half as much effort into life as I am.

This is all confusing and hard to explain.

Basically, I'm fine with dating a shy, quiet girl with a few mental disorders of some kind like Aspergers/Anxiety/Depression, (as long as it's not the mental disorders like BPD, sociopath, Bipolar etc. because these one's tend to result in aggression/her being cruel or mean) and would be fine if her goal in life is to be no more than a high school graduate who becomes a housewife, as long as she's warm and loving and doesn't expect me to end up being some top-earning super successful type.

She'd have to be okay with me being unemployed/on disability but working hard in other areas like education and being financially stable.

Basically I'd actually be fine with dating lower-middle class girls if the one's I've met weren't all so uneducated, bitter, jaded, aggressive, young and pregnant with the father in no sight, and don't take care of their health or appearance at all. Some fit only some of the categories, others all.

The lower-middle class girls I meet are messed up and negative, like most of my family. I'm NOT. That is the one difference and that's all I ever ask for in a lower-middle class girl - she's not like her family, because I'm not.

"Sometimes I get the opposite problem. I've made great strides to improve my life in the last 3 years but I'm still not good enough for middle class girls. Perhaps I never will be. with a late start I can never catch up with those who started early."

No, I still get this problem too.

I am in such a tiny grey area - not good enough for middle class girls and come across as the lazy, unambitious, disabled future 25 year old spends all day smoking weed and playing video games type to them, and I feel 'too good' for lower middle class girls because they lack ambition in all areas of life, unlike me.

"It was chasing after middle class girls that made me depressed about being a NEET, made me despise myself for a year, made me very depressed and then convinced me to embark on a career. I suppose I should thank those snobbish girls for my success. It's a double edged sword because before I started chasing after those girls I didn't despise myself for being a NEET and I had a very happy and relaxed life a NEET. Now my life is hectic and stressful."

Yeah, this is pretty much the only reason I want to honestly pursue a career.

I actually want to study at university because I'd actually be interested in the subject and want to learn, but also to have a degree or qualification to put on my resume.

Otherwise, I'm happy with living the rest of my life with no 'career', a part-time job at most, but it is most women and society that make me feel I can't do this and I'll have to get one.

It's like the only girls with any sort of ambition or motivation to succeed in life are middle class and feel they're too good for me, and the lower middle class girls I meet have no ambition in life and I feel too good for them because they just don't take care of themselves at all. They're more likely to accept me for me, but what I am is often much better than most of the males in their life (stereotypical low-life and redneck types).

I think I just realized that's why I attract them so much.

They're use to a-h•les who are addicted to drugs, love their stupid fast cars, binge drink, have no job or ambition in life, poor hygiene and health, etc.

"I used to think "I can't do this, I can't do that". I stopped that and replaced it with a very unhealthy perfectionism. I need to dispense with that as well. I need to improve my thinking so I can work on improving myself without worrying about my imperfections."

I am the textbook definition of a perfectionist.

"...If something bad happens to them like weight gain or poverty, the complain about it but they accept it. They make no effort to change it."

No truer words have been spoken.

"Yes because I despise the way I used to be. That's why I don't like seeing it in other people."

I know you said it to sly, but I've got to respond to this stuff.

I agree. Lower middle class or just lower class families and the drawbacks that come with them can be parasitical and suck those that want to achieve success down with negativity and hopelessness.

It is like trying to climb out of the deep dark hole you've been born into and everyone else pulling on your legs because "the surface people are snobby a-h•les controlled by the evil government that is secretly being controlled by the terrorist Muslims and boat people that want to take over Australia. They don't accept us and manipulate Centrelink to make sure we never get enough money to succeed in life, even though I spend half my pay on cigarettes, alcohol, food and my sh•tty car."

I...I think I just described all of Australian lower-middle class in only 2 sentences.

Marshall, you are so right.

I've thought this for a long time now.

I'm all for women being 'independent' and being as educated and financially well-off as possible, but it is in my experiences many women are hypergamous - they choose to 'date-up' and want a man more well-off than they are in many to all aspects of life.

Even if a woman isn't hypergamous, it's in my experiences most men and women want someone equal to them educationally, financially and career-wise.

This leaves most aspie men and women in the dust, as our struggles to keep-up with the rat race are becoming more and more difficult in modern times.

Even now I have former classmates I graduated high school with last year who are LIGHT YEARS ahead of me.

There's one girl I graduated with who shares an apartment with her brother in a big city severeal hours away from the small one she grew up in (away from family aside from him), drives, owns a car, is studying at university, works a part-time job, and is currently traveling the U.S. at the tender age of 18.

THIS is pretty much the norm for young men and women today, and it's a lot to live up to.

RetroGamer calls it the 'qualification treadmill'; because most young men and women today are attending and graduating university, and a degree is now required for most jobs nowadays, what's an 'average' amount of success won't be 'average' tomorrow.

Graduating high school and securing a job use to be an 'average' level of success in the past, even if the job was part-time.

Now I personally consider this the bare minimum of what it means to be successful, but with rising university attendance and graduate rates, this very well could be, or unfortunately already is, considered 'less than average'.

I'm already behind my peers just because I don't drive, don't own a car, have never had a part-time job (but have volunteered), and am currently a NEET.

Graduating high school with no life experience and nothing to your name except for a high school diploma itself use to be the norm. Now it's almost considered failure.

Exactly.

"Also, I never blamed women. I just get annoyed at particular women."

Same here.

Also, because women are more independent nowadays, this means instead of say 50% of the world attending university, getting the degree and competing for work, it can now be 100% of the world.

Doesn't that sound pleasant?

Statistics already say in many countries there are more female university students than male. Hmm...I wonder what positives this could bring to the dating world!

But really, I AM all for women being independent. I'm just pointing out with free speech that it doesn't always have a positive impact.

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Last edited by KimD on 04 Sep 2016, 8:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

I admit I haven't read this thread in its entirety, but I can't stand any haughty people. I consider myself an egalitarian in a lot of ways, including the idea that men should be perfectly welcome and respected in the variety of job situations that women may have, and vice-versa, but we're obviously not there yet. Maybe we'll never get there, and maybe it's best on some level if we don't, but I really believe that if more people could have occupations (and that includes the "homemaker" role, the DINK and SINK life, and shorter workweeks/workdays) that suit them and fulfill them, the whole world would be a much better place.

Being around too much bad news, too much anger, too much negative "energy" isn't good for anyone. I think often of my older brother who keeps a certain news channel on in the background almost all day; I think it's not the only reason he can be such a pessimistic, bitter grump, but it sure doesn't help at all. He's retired now and I think it's more important than ever that he finds more hobbies that take him away from the TV.

I'm in no way qualified to be a career counselor of any sort, but I just want to put it out there that your determination and tenacity could help you in a job search. Since you're not an early bird, working a late shift might be a good choice--and it might be easier to get because a lot of people don't want those positions. I wont' make assumptions about your qualifications or your previous job search efforts, but perhaps a position in a gym might be enjoyable to you because of your interest in health and fitness. Again, I'm not saying that would work, and I'm not saying you haven't thought about it before, but it's a suggestion.

Women shouldn't be blamed for these sorts of things (and neither should men), but when you cite specific examples, it sounds like that's what you're doing. If your dating experience is limited and predominantly bad (you seem to be hinting at that--I'm not assuming it), then your personal experience may be having a stronger impact on your point of view than it would if you have had a more varied, more-or-less positive experience.

The pressure on a woman to make babies (whether she wants to or not) is tremendous; perhaps if women are searching for men who make more, it's at least in part because they want to be sure they don't end up on welfare. As you pointed out, many people want someone who makes about the same as they do, but many men would feel emasculated by women who make more than they. Of course, it's not all about the money; it's about commonalities that can also come from similar education and social status, and again, that's basically a universal thing that has existed for a very long time.

Wow, this is news for me. That's terrible.

I think it could actually result in less students completing high school.

When I was in high school, the system actually motivated me to stay in high school. The reason I was in school for another two years was so I could get the payment. I'm not sure if I could have claimed the payment as a 16 year old jobseeker. That wasn't really my plan at the time anyway.Yes they do. That was the reason I applied for the payment at 16. Mum lost her payment for me and then she told me to apply for Youth Allowance so we'd still be getting money. At the time it was a good system because it was a seamless transition. The moment she lost her payment for me, I got a payment. I gave half the money to her.

Wanting to get this payment was the reason I stayed in school (mostly bludge subjects). Even though I'm ashamed of not having a university degree, it's good that I graduated high school because if I hadn't I'd be even more ashamed. I was actually really surprised I passed enough subjects to get a high enough SACE score to graduate. After failing every year 11 subject I was surprised to pass all but the first semester of one subject. I was also surprised that the subjects I had in year 12 were enough because SACE is the sum of year 11 and year 12 and I got zero points from year 11.

It's good that I proved to myself I can graduate high school but I'd still like it better if I could have graduated while doing non-bludge subjects. I know other students spend much more time studying than I did because they take challenging subjects instead of bludge subjects. Also I did year 12 over two years, part time. I was a little stressed by the workload but the majority if students take year 12 full time, that's twice as many subjects at a time (while doing the non-bludge subjects so that's twice as much homework per subject). Imaging doing all that while holding a part time job...Exactly. I went to a family thing for father's day today and my snobby rich aunt was there. Her daughter wasn't there because she's working at the Royal Adelaide Show. I think she's about 15 or 16. She plans to study to be a Veterinarian so she's certainly not taking the bludge subjects. Quite the opposite. She's taking subjects from the next year up to make more room for subjects next year. She's had similar jobs in the past, food selling jobs at various sporting events.

Now she's selling pies at the pie stand for 10 to 12 hours on Saturday and 10 to 12 hours on Sunday. The Royal Adelaide Show runs for 10 days and spans two weekends so that's four days. If the Show was in the school holidays I have no doubt she'd work 10 days in a row.

So while school is on, she's working 10 to 12 hours on Saturday and Sunday. If I did that, I'd be really exhausted when I came into class on Monday morning. She's not. She's fine with it. She doesn't even live near the show. An hour commute each way would turn a 12 hour day into a 14 hour day.

I used to do most of my assignments on the weekends because I was tired when I came home from school. Not her. Since she sells food on the weekend I guess she must have plenty of energy to do her assignemnts on weeknights. Also her younger sister recently got a job as well.

I'm so jealous of their incredible work ethic! Why couldn't I have been like that! It makes me so mad at myself. When I was her age I was failing every subject. The following year I was passing my bludge subjects as a part time student. I certainly didn't have a job at the time.

I wish I could have been like that when I was 15 but instead I was lazy and that year has passed. How can I get good at being a workaholic when my cousins are better at being workaholics than me? It's so discouraging!

I actually took a McDonald's job application form when I was 14. I filled it out because I wanted money but I was too chicken to submit it because I was worried that working and studying at the same time would stress me too much. It turned out I was right because when I was 15 I did year 11 which stressed me out all by itself.

I still proved that I can work and study at the same time because last year I took TAFE night classes after work and I passed most of my subjects. I was a bit stressed by that though. Now I'm studying for ISTQB certification on the weekends. When I want to give up I just think of other people who work way harder than me and I keep going because if they can do it, I can.

Anyway, I've noticed that having a part time job while in high school is expected for middle class people, even though they need the money the least. It's not about the money for them, it's about getting references. It's about having more jobs to add on their resume. They know HR would rather hire someone who's resume has overlapping years of work and study.

Does Centralink policy reflect middle class expectations? Yes. Because it's made by middle class people who think that everyone else had the same experiences they did. Centrelink workers do not set Centralink policy, they merely follow it. Centrelink policy is exclusively the domain of politicians. Any successful politician probably got that way by being a workaholic. Most of them were law students and law is the second hardest degree after medicine. So yes they can work very hard but they think everyone else is like them!I think I had something like that as a teen, though I didn't know the word for it at the time. I didn't know about the different diagnoses and it never occurred to me to see a shrink or even the school counselor. I didn't have words to describe my problems, didn't know what they were and didn't think there was any treatment.

At the time I thought the cure was to avoid the things I was scared of rather than learn how to stop fearing them.

I think I had partial agoraphobia or something. I wasn't totally housebound but I got anxious about school and I absolutely hated going to the city. I see plenty of teens catch the train to the city after school (or catch the train to the city for school). I had to go to a dentist in the city every six weeks and I hated it, not becasue I was scared of the dentist but because I was scared of going to the city on the train. Sometimes I got someone to drive me and that was different. I just didn't like catching the train by myself or walking through the city by myself. I realize both of those things should easily be within the capability of a normal teenager.

I was fine walking around my own neighborhood by myself but I was nervous at social gatherings (like a lot of people are). I was super anxious about dating. Even when girls asked me out I refused. Going on a date was the most overwhelming thing I could think of. I was also terrified of going to university for reasons of workload, going to the city, getting lost on campus, being myself, being around other people, getting invited to parties, having girls hit on me, being insulted by condescending professors, etc. Mostly it was the workload.If you want to go to university than you should definitely get on disability. It will be much easier for you to study while you have more money.

Youth Allowance Student requires you to study full time but on the DSP you're allowed to study part time (or not at all).If you don't qualify for the DSP and you don't want to submit n job applications every week, you can just become a full time TAFE or university student and there will be no requirement for you to submit job applications. I have some bad news for you. People will still judge you for being a dole bludger regardless of what type of payment you're on.

My snobby relatives hated it just as much when I was getting unemployment as when I was getting the DSP. Either way I was getting a Centrelink payment while unemployed and they hated me for it.

Also while on the DSP I wasn't popular with the girls.Some girls will say a guy on DSP is still a bludger. Some will say he has a legit disability and then say they don't want to date a disabled guy. Some girls want an ambitious guy, even if a guy has a justified reason for not being ambitious, they're more concerned about the end result than the reason for it.Yep. Also if, while on the DSP you don't go somewhere such as work, university or DnD club you'll limit your social interactions, i.e. not enough time spent outside in order to meet girls.

We've already established that the gym is not an appropriate venue to pick up girls. Work might be and university certainly is. I almost got a girlfriend in my first year of TAFE so if I'd been in university it would have been all but guaranteed. If you're looking for a one night stand or if you're looking for a long term relationship. Both can be found on a university campus.

Moreso than TAFE because TAFE has zero activities other than class. University has lots of activities outside of class. Just because an activity isn't inside a class room, that doesn't mean it's not educational I think university teaches you to be social just as much as it teaches you stuff in class.Good idea. I even no middle class people who live with their parents so they can save up for a house or investment property. Then once they've got a house, they continue living with their parents so their tenants pay their whole mortgage for them (while they also claim the house as a tax loss and use negative gearing, etc). This means that 25 years later, they've obtained a house for free. All the money they don't spend on their mortage can go towards a second investment property or into their stock portfolio.

For this reason I think I moved out of home too early. Although I like being independent. I found my mother to be overbearing.Play-hard is certainly ambitious. I find having a hobby is much more ambitious than watching TV.

For example, some people work full time and then when the weekend comes they're exhausted so they spend the weekend resting. Other people work full time and have energy to spare so they spend Saturday and Sunday playing sports or surfing. I couldn't do that but I admire those who can.

That's part of the reason why I don't like holidays. When I have a few weeks off I mostly just want to rest. Travelling around the world sounds very stressful to me (although my cousin's wife says it's relaxing because she doesn't have to do any housework).I mostly just go by looks. I crush on girls who are pretty and thin.

I realize that personality and chemistry are really important but I can't measure those things until after I've been dating them for a while.

I would recommend you avoid dating girls with depression. I know it's mean and cruel for me to say this. I know it's hypocritical of me since I have depression. It's just that I found dating a girl with depression to be distressing.

Sometimes she'd stay at home for weeks at a time and it felt like being single. She had very little energy so if she went out with her girlfriends on Saturday, she had no energy for dating on Sunday, so she stayed home.

Her self-loathing was difficult for me because I didn't know how to deal with it. She kept on making really self-deprecating remarks and I didn't know what to say.That's pretty much true but a lot of the nice girls are already on a high level. A lot of the girls I like start university at 18, graduate by 22 and within a year they're middle class, with a professional type job, saving for their first investment property.

I like those girls because if they have a good work ethic then they usually have a good fitness ethic. If they have enough self-discapline to study or work than they have enough self-discapline to not eat junkfood. If they have enough long term planning ability to go through four years of univeristy than they have enough long term planning ability to see the long term consequences of what they eat.

The less ambitious people I know have a theoretical understand that bad food makes them fat but they don't put that theoretical understanding into practice because while they can conceive a long term plan, they can't enact one. Unambitious people fail at delayed gratification. They can't make a sacrifice now to get some benefit years from now. That's why they can't go through four years of university, they can't go on a long term diet and they can't make long term investments. These are the people who say they'll avoid junkfood but say "just one more"... "just one more"... "just one more"... and then they've had ten more!

These are the people who say they'll start their diet tomorrow. Then tomorrow. Then tomorrow. Then years go by.

These usually have good self-esteem and no depression.

Unambiguous women are more likely to be smokers and I hate the smell of tobacco. Also they're more likely to have tattoos. Tattoos are a turnoff for me. So are long fingernails. Tattoos and long fingernails for drag queens, not nice girls. Long fingernails are creepy.Shy girls are the worst. They're the ones who don't want to do stuff with you. If you think of an outing for the two of you she won't want to go.

Also you'll have to be the initiator at every stage of intimacy because she girls have zero initiative. When you introduce her to your friends or take her to a party she won't talk much. It's more fun taking a charismatic girl to a party.

My ex didn't want to meet my family because she thought they'd hate her. Her mother forced her to go. My family liked her and were nice to her (fortunately my snobby aunt was on a business trip). She made a really big fuss about trying to get out of meeting my family.The difficulty with middle class girls is there's no catching up. They not only judge you based on what you've achieved but on when you achieved it.

If you get a professional job at 27, they might still see you as being inferior when they achieved the same at 22. They might not like that you got your first part time job at 22 when they achieved the same thing at 15.

You can't catch up with them when they're going through life at top speed. The best you can do is match their speed and that means you'll never get any closer to them.It started off that way for me but very quickly turned into an independent thing.

After the girls shamed me for being a NEET, for a little while I wanted a career to impress girls with but then my career ambition became a thing unto itself. I not only wanted to impress girls, I wanted to impress everyone. I wanted to show my relatives I could be as good as them.

It wasn't just about being good enough for girls, it was mostly about being good enough for myself. I had to prove to myself that I could do it. That way I could stop hating myself.Yeah, that helps. I've done some boring subjects and struggled to read through the material. I got so tempted to read fun stuff on Wikipedia. Either way I'd be learning stuff but the good subjects were fun enough that I wasn't tempted to binge on Wikipedia. I actually wanted to get to the end of the material out of interest instead of because I had too.

I need to do more learning like that. Find subjects enjoyable enough that they can become my recreation. That way I won't be tempted by other recreation.That's ok. I don't believe in limiting conversations to being only two ways.That was my parents. Mostly my mother.

It was so weird having a low class mother sucking me down while having upper middle class uncles, aunts and cousins expecting me to achieve like them at the same time. I felt so conflicted, trapped between two worlds.

Having rich relatives when you're not rich totally sucks!Pretty much but I've heard middle class people say things just as ridiculous. My aunt says the fire department is underfunded due to all the people on Centrelink even though they're about 20% of government spending.

She thinks she's the victim of a conspiracy by poor people to make her do all the work. She thinks they're deliberately being poor as a way to get her money. She resents paying taxes even though after taxes she's still very wealthy. Her and her husband own six houses and four cars and a boat for God's sake!

She says poor people are ruining the economy even in years when the economy is doing very well. She says poor people are ruining the economy even though they don't control the economy. When the economy goes pear shaped I blame the people who are in charge of it.

She loves the Liberal party for their austerity measures. She says it's good to cut welfaire spending so we can get a budget surpless. She ignores that the Liberal party has funded some very expensive white elephent projects.

I agree that the government shouldn't overspend but they should cut the least important projects first. The Liberals cut stuff that people really need while keeping the white elephant projects.

I absolutely hate that they always get a budget surplus by selling off government owned assets, meaning that when Labor has their turn in power they have a deficit due to the government leasing assets that they used to own.

I hate how people say we need to vote Liberal to get lower taxes when in the late 90s the Liberal party significantly increased taxes.

The Liberals want us to believe they cut spending so we can have low taxes when in reality they cut spending and raise taxes at the same time.

Note to any Americans reading this. In the Australian vocabulary, Liberal means right wing. This is based on the early 20th century model of European classical liberal economics

Very true and this is wrong. I hate that women get pressured to have kids when they don't want to.

To judge women on how many kids they've birthed is just as wrong as judging men on how many women they've banged. Society does both of these things and both are wrong.

There are probably tons of women who don't want kids and who can blame them?I can certainly understand the desire for financial stability. I don't blame women for not wanting to date some lazy poor guy.

But does this require the man to make more? If Alice gets paid $100,000 per year and her husband Bob gets paid $70,000 per year, they're still going to have a very robust combined income even though Bob makes less than Alice.

If they both have high incomes it is not required for the man to have a higher income.

This desire for men to be paid more is helping to perpetuate the gender wage gap. It is self-contradictory to want men and women to receive the same pay while also wanting men to receive more pay.

If you believe a man should make more money than his wife that probably means you have internalized misogyny.