Desire and the Destruction of Friendships

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Demanding that someone stay the same isn't friendship either.

You can't demand that someone stop being attracted to you or demand that they stop desiring something more from the relationship. All you can do is let them leave to find the happiness they're looking for. If the friendship is strong, they'll come back after they've had the time to sort out their feelings. If not, then you had a buddy who you shared a few moments with before he moved on to other things.

I think it's interesting how many of us seem to have this same problem. I'm wondering whether someone should post a topic pertaining to the issue in Woman's discussion. I never realized how many other AS girls were going through the same thing...

I think the problem for me with the friends with benefits thing, even though I am not against the idea (and have done it once or twice), is that I have difficulty knowing where the line is drawn because I cannot read the signs. Once you start that, outwardly you are doing the same things as someone in a relationship, so there is no clues as to what's appropriate and what's not, and where pitfalls lie. At that point it's hard to tell what's a relationship and what isn't, and how you're supposed to feel towards that other person as well as how they feel towards you. A mistake could potentially cause heartbreak and a loss of friendship.
For me it's easier to divide people up into a relationship/non-relationship status by creating physical boundaries. Then I know where I stand with people and what sort of relationship we have.

I've figured it out....in future I'm going to tell guys that although I may look human, I'm actually from the planet vulcan and I only feel the urge to mate every 7 years during pon farr then say...unfortunately you just missed it, it was last month so you'd have to wait another 7 years.....

Well in a sense I do, but it's totally your choice if you do or not...



I think it all comes down to this. For me, in order for a woman to be physically unattractive enough I wouldn't consider being her FWB, she'd have to seriously be in like the bottom 2%--i.e. UGLY. More difficult is having our personalities click, but well over half of this is already taken care if if I want to be a friend who's at all close. Now it isn't that I'm unable to be picky--for me to feel a romantic "spark" toward a woman is really quite rare, though it feels great when I do.



Another crux here. A woman who wants to be friends but is totally off limits sexually is (to me) sending the message "no matter how well we will understand each other and/or like each other as people, there's no way I will ever be comfortable enough with you to let you touch, or even see, the parts of my body that I don't show people who walk along the street". You can rationally try to defend this as much as you like, but it still feels like a rejection.



I kind of have to smirk when I read this, and it's totally not because I don't take disease prevention or family planning seriously. There are plenty of ways to be physically intimate without the risk of pregnancy, and many of them have a low disease transmission rate too--plus the latter can be tested for with reasonable accuracy. If I couldn't have a frank, rational discussion with someone about how to have fun while minimizing health risks, I also wouldn't be comfortable having a friendship of any significant depth with that person.

I don't speak for all guys here, but my urges toward female friends are mostly about exploring bodies and what feels good, not getting a physical release with little regard for their comfort or safety. I find it odd that almost no women have the same kind of burning curiosity about what it feels like to be physically intimate with the guys they are relating to.

What gets me is, just because a guy is really attractive or wants a romantic relationship doesn't suddenly make you immune to catching an STD, nor does it magically give you the financial or emotional readiness to raise a child. And considering that many women seem to use the disease "excuse" when they won't as much as let a guy friend see them topless, I almost have to laugh, because it seems more like they are just trying to give a scientific label to their vague "ickiness" toward sexual openness as a whole.



Again, it's not your responsibility, I'm just saying what I'd want and what I think might get you more of what you want. And like many women you seem to have a very one-sided idea of sex, where it's like a chore for the woman, and the guy has all the fun. You know maybe I wouldn't want to be sexual with you if I were your friend.

Rejection is a normal part of life. If that feels like rejection to you, too bad, deal with it. You aren't going to get into the pants of every woman you understand and/or like, because there is no guarantee that either of those things means she is in any way attracted to you. If you try to use this sense of rejection to guilt-trip women into having sex with you, that just makes you a seriously worthless person. I've had guys try that. I threw them out of my house and my life.



Any ickiness isn't towards sexual openness, it's ickiness towards the men who claim such things who don't realize that it is they themselves that are the problem. My body is my body. If I don't want someone else's potential diseases in it, then I won't open myself to that danger. If I don't want someone else's bodily fluids, sweat, tongue, or anything else on my body, that's my choice too. I find most people to be disgusting. Why would I let someone I find disgusting touch me? Simple. I won't.



I don't have a one-sided idea of sex, I find it very enjoyable when I want to have it. I simply find most people, including yourself (based on your attitude on this forum) to be completely disgusting for varying reasons. I hope to whatever higher power there may or may not be that a woman never attempts to befriend you. I have a feeling you would prey on women with low self-esteem, convincing them this is what they are meant for in the world.

Insisting that women sleeping around with all of their friends is the only right choice in the world is as narrow-minded as a person insisting everyone must stay celibate until marriage. Just because you would have sex with anything on two legs doesn't mean the majority of the population would. Some of us aren't that pathetically desperate. Some of us have self-respect and self-control.

Women aren't objects. You don't f*ck them and pass them around to your friends. That isn't your decision and never should be.

I get the feeling you have no idea what you are actually talking about, have never had sex, or have only experienced sad desperate women. Otherwise you'd have been kicked in the nuts by now. Repeatedly.

at biostructure:

Actually, after reading through your history of posts, I feel bad having even responded to that.

You seem to have a seriously debilitating obsession with sex. I hope you're getting counseling, because that kind of obsession can become rather dangerous on top of preventing you from finding the kind of relationship you want. I'm sorry you're so frustrated, but it really doesn't mean you should completely disrespect women. Get yourself help before you get yourself in trouble.

Privately, quite a few of us do, some are just better at dealing with it than others. I try to keep my mouth shut on the sex issue, but its hard as it always comes up in these discussions, and it can become a little sexist sometimes, without it meaning to be. We're sorry for that, frustration can be difficult to deal with when you're alone.

Seconded. Biostructure, your views and expectations regarding sexuality and the behavior of others is troubling. Sexuality is a complex thing, and the sense that you believe that women should be open to you sexually regardless of their feelings, beliefs, or preferences is astounding and disturbing.


M.

Make that thirded. Makuranososhi summed it up, but Biostructure- I find that post disrespectful and if it was spoken IRL, I would consider it coercive. Women are not a convenience, and do not need an excuse if they don't want to be seen topless. Being somebody's friend or aquaintance does not give you the right to expect sexual contact however the woman feels.

To andriarose: No, I have not had sex, nor did I get to play "show me yours" games as a kid. This I'm sure has something, though by no means everything, to do with my level of curiosity. Yes I've watched porn and have lots of "book knowledge" about all kinds of sexual practices, but that's not a substitute for an actual person to explore.

You call the average person disgusting about five times, which is really telling. Why would I want a friend who on some level considers me disgusting? And would I even want to be intimate with her, knowing she was only doing it because I was hot, rich, or willing enough to commit to her to override her inherent repulsion?

Your "bang and pass" comment makes you sound, frankly, quite unattractive. Not only is your concept of sexuality limited to "f***ing", but you seem to have this vision that after any kind of sexual encounter with a guy, a girl, now worthless to him due to being tainted with some kind of cooties if not a real STD, becomes some kind of object to be passed along. That image is as off-putting to me as if one of my hiking buddies said he wanted to "drag me up the muddy hillside and then pass me to his friend".

The lack of innocence that comes through in your last post is deeply saddening. What I mean here is NOT to be confused with a lack of awareness of real, biological disease, nor absence of knowledge about sex, nor even with physical virginity. I seriously hope that the first sexual partner I do find is not so overgrown with hangups and weird feelings that she tries to exorcise from me any belief that sexuality can be merely a beautiful thing shared between people.

No girl is obligated to give me access to her body, but I'm also not obligated to become a close friend to a girl or hang out with her for a certain length of time. I'm just saying that from a friendship with a girl, at this point in my life, I will usually want physical openness, and if I don't get it, I either leave or the friendship will be tense and strained.

Seriously, you have no actual life experience to go on here, and therefore no basis for any of the comments you are making.

It's all situations you have worked out in your head and wish to apply to the real world. I'm sorry to say, it doesn't work that way. When you actually experience the complexity of sexual interaction, you are welcome to have an opinion. Until then, don't go around telling other people what they should and shouldn't be doing.

I would appreciate it if you took this conversation somewhere else and left this thread open for constructive responses to my original question.

Bonding is hard wired into our genes.

I meet a girl. I like her. We have fun together and have similar interests.

I am going to fall in love with her and want to protect/possess her.

I want her to be "my girl".

That is life,

It's true I haven't experienced sex itself, but I've experienced wanting to be sexually involved with girls who just wanted to be friends. I feel this is very relevant to this discussion, since I'm coming from the other side and trying to say that maybe openly fulfilling desire is the way to avoid destruction of friendships, rather than trying to prevent it. If this doesn't work for you, then that's your own business.

Even so, you are saying it without any experience to back it up. Which just makes it wishful thinking. Wishing it was true, doesn't make it so. And when andriarose (or all the other women here, including me) tell you "it isn't so", the problem isn't ours for being so stubborn. The problem is yours for insisting that reality will conform to your ideas if you just keep repeating those ideas. It isn't so.

Because you've experienced this 'being sexually involved with girls who just want to be friends' and it was highly successful?

You have nothing worthwhile to contribute here. You really don't. Have all the fantasies and mistaken preconceptions you like, but don't attempt to apply them to other people's lives, especially when you can't even apply them to your own. It's entirely wishful thinking. Sexual interaction, whether you choose to believe it or not, is complex. The fact that you think it isn't, or don't want it to be, doesn't change the fact that it's true.

There have been multiple people in this thread who agree that your views are disturbing and disrespectful. You need a good wake up call, and you need it soon.

I agree that I need experience, which is why I need a girl who will conform to my ideas enough that I can actually try what I am seeking to see if it will work.

I reserve the right to want a certain kind of involvement with the opposite sex, and you do not have to "OK" that, thank you. And I have the right to suggest that maybe others should be open to that as well.