feelings of despair

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I don't consider being overweight a problem. If they are saying that, to me they are making a demand on me. "I'll go out with you if you loose weight" is what they are saying. If they are making demands like that before we are even going out, what kinds of demands would the be making to me when we would be going out? People should want to go out with someone because they like them for who they are, not because they want to change them. I would NEVER make a demand on someone I was going out with like that.

I saw a cartoon online once. it had two women talking. One told the other "I just need to change a couple of more things about him before I can accept him for who he is." How true.

All opinions of women aside, being overweight is a problem. Doesnt matter what your opinion on it is. It's unhealthy. And that's how it is viewed. You should be happy with who you are, but you should never stop trying to improve yourself. And that's the message you are giving if you say you are happy being overweight, you are saying "i dont care to be as healthy as i can be, i dont care to live as long as i possibly can"

no. that's not shallow. women are picky- that's the reality of things. what is shallow is expecting them to ignore their nature and "tolerate". why should we "tolerate"? if we did, there would never have been any progress. we would never have even came down from the damn trees! it's the female pickyness that drives evolution. sorry to sound so fascist, but that's the way things are.

I think you should think this over and find whatever it is that puts women off, and work on that, because no matter what you say we will never ever change. ever. there is a reason why women have preferences, and why this system works and it works well. and why you have a frontal lobe and opposable thumbs and a speech apparatus.

having said that, I think you should read this article. it might make you feel better

I will never try and work out again, ever. For my reason see my post in The Haven section about why I can't trust medical people.

How true indeed. So you have to ask yourself, which do you want more: a relationship? or to never have any demands placed on you? Because it is the nature of relationships that both parties must bend themselves and adapt to fit together as a couple. There is no such thing as a relationship where all you have to do is just show up. I gave up my unshaven-legs hippie holdout for my husband. He learned to wash dishes for me. There is no such thing as a relationship where you are just exactly as you were when you were single except now with a companion. It doesn't work that way. And railing against the world and insisting that it SHOULD work that way is simply choosing not to be in a relationship. When you vow that you will never change anything in your life or about yourself for a woman, you are vowing to stay single.

You don't need to trust medical people to work out. You don't even need to go to a gym. You merely need to make modest lifestyle changes like walking more, taking the stairs whenever there are stairs, lifting weights.

I understand reltionships require compromise and commucation from both parties. But its one thing to ask your partner 'Honey, i'm tired will you make dinner tonight" and another: "will you totally change your lifestyle and loose weight?" I would never consider asking a women I'm interested in "I'd go out with you if you were thinner." or "if you got a boob job I'd definatly go out with you" or " get a face lift and you'll get a guy". See the difference? I know you have to make little compromises to be with someone. But not big ones like people have demanded of me.

I'm on my feet all day at work, walking, ect.. Last thing I want to do on my own time is to be on my feet more.

How about if she said to you "i want to spend as much time as possible with you, and the though of losing you to a heart attack is horrible, please do what you can to be as healthy as you can, even if it just means i get spend 1 more year with you"

I'd consider that better then "lose weight and I'd go out with you." People have said those exact words to me many times. They have no idea how hurtful it sounds.

Well I'd have to say given that women are shallow...is that just as fair as saying a man isn't shallow. Men are very picky about the way they want their women to look.

But aside from looks and the issue of being overweight, people are going to have a hard time being attracted to someone who doesn't love themselves. You can't expect love to just walk in your door while you're sitting their griping about how women or men or whatnot don't like you. I'd hate to be in relationship if someone just felt sorry for me, that isn't love that's pitty.

And if you're going to sit here thinking that some self improvement is impossible, then you've decided to stay where you're at. Self improvement doesn't mean dramatically changing yourself or even you looks per se. It means finding the motivation and means to liking yourself. Rejection happens to a lot of people, I've known people who move on or don't let it bug them to the point that it becomes indicative of who they are. I hate to say this, but it isn't exactly appealing or attractive to b***h about yourself. To some degree we all b***h but it gets to the point where it's like hearing the same song and dance. If you can't take some insight or put some thought into people's suggestions, then what good is it?

I know, I lived in a family where I'd have to hear my dad b***h about the same thing over and over. It got to the point where my mom couldn't handle it and I just couldn't be around it. I'm not saying you don't have a right to bring up your issues but still....at least try to find positive attributes of yourself and stop judging every girl that walks by. Hell...I know I have a lot of issues but I find easier to try and improve what it is I might be doing than going around blaming people and things for my problems. True, there are some things I can't change but I'm not about to sink into oblivion with using the excuse..."There's no way out."

And TOS, I can pretty much identify your feelings of despair. I know exactly what it feels like, in fact I've gone to the extreme and tried to take my life for feeling like it was hopeless. But I found through so much counseling and rehabs that happiness or whatever isn't things you get for free. It has to come from inside yourself before you find it out there.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I worded this in the way I wanted, but there it is. And yes, it's easier said than done. There's nothing more true than the saying that actions speak louder than words.

I keep hearing this, and get the idea that there's some merit to this type of statement... but there is one thing that keeps nagging at the back of my head about this: If I were to be perfectly capable of being happy by myself, what's the point of finding somebody to help me? It just seems like it's defeating the purpose is all...

I'm not sure I agree. There I might be for some people, but most likely it is part of the problem. Focusing on the thought hat you are alone for motivation just doesn't cut it unless you can influence you thought pattern too. It is more of a bad distraction if anything.

Motivation needs to be imminent and interesting. Loads of people go for the standard gym membership. They are all on direct debits, the sort of people who drive to the gym to go run on the treadmill. Only a fraction keeps it up. What's more some of them are too embarrassed to cancel their direct debit. They keep telling themselves that they will be going back. If pissing money down the drain isn't a motivation enough, then that shows that these sorts of negative motivation don't work. One problem with gym exercise is it is boring you are just doing exercise for the sake of exercise without another benefit emmediate. there is actaully something wrong with going to gyms when you can run outside too.

I used to go to the gym (I was never so daft as to sign up the direct debit). I am very fit and lean from martial arts. This past month I have been taking the warm up. I am even motivated to do the things I used to moan about. I feel I have to push the bar, for the people coming. It is motivating to see them improve. In martial arts you are going to do plenty of exercise just in the drills and sparring. I've really improved my endurance. In the gym I could push the boat out but after a while coming back I was crashing and burning.

Having a personal trainer might be the answer to some people, if they can make it interesting. Also people do need advice. It isn’t just about loosing weight. It is actually bad for obese people to loose weight too quickly, without enforcing a healthily regime.

I get what you're saying, but in order to accomplish anything there needs to be a sufficient amount of motivation behind ones intention. I don't know what exactly that may be for TOS. I suppose only he knows. To channel his desire for companionship, may be that push he needs, or it could end up causing him to fail. The truth is he needs to find that motivation which will keep him single minded and motivated for a long time. TOS, only you know what that is.

I'm going to take a guess but I think that this- this right here- is your biggest obstacle. I think this is a bigger obstacle than out-of-shape (which can be overcome, and might be fun to overcome if you join a walking group with women or something like that) and bigger even than Aspergian difficulty in reading non-verbal messages. Although women love a makeover project, it's the quest for self-improvement that we get to help with that we love (I am recklessly speaking for all women and no doubt being wrong about many but also being right about many). That's why I said it would be a very good idea to ask for help in getting in shape if a woman brings it up. (It isn't just getting in shape that chimes women's bells. Any jock-ish type of guy who isn't well read and admits it to a woman will find himself presented with a list of books she thinks he should read.) But it's a surface makeover that women like getting involved in. Taking on sole responsibility for filling a deep emotional hole in a man is something that will scare a woman away. It's just too overwhelming a task.

So, counter-intuitive though it may seem, filling your own emotional hole until you are happy with yourself will make you more attractive to women. Women want to appreciated. Women want to be loved. But women don't want to be thought of as the last life preserver on the Titanic. This is what people are really getting at when they say women are attracted to self confidence. Women are attracted to a man on a mission far more than a man who acts like his soul is half full and a woman is needed to fill it. LePetitPrince got scolded for his Tough Love approach to advice but I think he had a very good point. If you turn away from looking looking looking for a girlfriend and instead turn your energies to getting in shape, your fortunes are likely to turn around. First, it distracts you from your unhappiness. Second, you get in shape- which is always good. Third, you become a man on a mission, which women like to see. Fourth, a woman may decide that she finds your mission of fitness quite intriguing and she'd like to help. A woman is far more likely to want to help with that than want to help you fill a deep emotional hole. Fifth and finally, a more fit body will make you feel great which will translate into the confidence that women are attracted to.

Don't let the fit-yet-rejected horror story of George Sodini sway you. From his online diary it is clear he hated women. And no woman wants to be with a man who hates her, no matter how fit or confident he is.

I'm not sure getting fit just to get fit is motivator enough as a start point ...but once you start and get in a routine, you probably will not need external motivators.

TOS, I seem to remember you do a lot of stuff for church and charity...maybe the end goal could be something like a charity/sponsored run? This has the advantage of being a way to approach people to get them to sponsor you, something extra to talk about. Or if you feel you already do enough for others, maybe something like a ski trip once your fitness levels are up.

Fit and thin are not necessarily the same thing.
If nothing else, the endorphins from exercise really do help mood, I haven't bothered exercising much for a while because of amount of work, there is a definate difference.

Hope the negative posts don't stop you taking something from this thread.