why are people here against dating gurus (datasage, mystery)

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But that's what I would consider a practice relationship, one where neither person really cares if it lasts long-term. If one person wants it to be "the real thing" and the other just wants to polish skills, then that's a very one-sided relationship.

At this point in my life, I don't think I have enough experience to even feel the "real thing", nor do I know if I ever will. Yes, with the right person I could feel an overwhelmingly passionate attraction, but on a serious level I have no illusions about there not being an end somewhere on the horizon. And in fact, seriously thinking that it would be my only romance would all but ruin it, because there would be too much pressure to make it into something "real" to just sit back and enjoy the ride as I'd want to. So there's a huge difference between feeling that it's all-consuming in the moment, and actually believing or wanting it to be "the one". It's sort if like, if you get all buzzed at a party, you can have a blast running around and making an absolute fool of yourself partly because on some level you assume that, come the next day, you will be able to function normally again.

The thing about dating gurus in general (not just here, but like the dating advice and stuff in books and all) is that they make suggestions for things that should be done more, not things that should be done exclusively, or to extremes. Aspie obsessiveness just leads us to believe that the more we do any of those things, the better it is. I have that issue with everything. I figure that if some is good, MORE must be better. If it's good to know something about a topic, it's good to know EVERYTHING about that topic. If some of a particular spice is good, well then it would be better to use five times as much! (I've ruined salmon that way. Not ruined it completely, it wasn't bad.. it was just that you're not supposed to over-flavor salmon because you're actually supposed to be able to taste the salmon, and not just a bunch of spices) So to expand on the salmon analogy.. even if you like all the spices you're flavoring it with, if you add too much, all you taste is the spices and you don't even taste the fish. (Get your minds out of the freaking gutter!! I'm talking about dinner!)

So the dating gurus give you advice, but without ToM... how do you figure out the difference between taking the advice, and trying to replace the relationship with what you were told a relationship is supposed to be like?

The way I see it, friendzoning is tantamount to rejection, aka failure... I've become friends with women before (happens a lot), and never develop feelings for said women, but it's not a real friendzoning because they never used "let's be friends" as a means to reject me...

story of my life... I'm never what anyone is looking for...

Maybe, but I would be willing to at least test it before I decide it's not worth it...

No, most people that reject me don't exclude me from their lives entirely... but they do keep me at arms length...

New demographics? Where?

I wouldn't have an answer for that... the only AS ladies I know are all much younger than me...

Friendzoning from a potential romantic interest is a kind of rejection, that much is true. My point is that you can do absolutely everything in the world, and still not be romantically attractive to every single woman on the planet. Some women are just manhaters and their rejection shouldn't be taken personally! So if I were you I'd try to step away from the mindset that if you fail at all, it's so terrible. With that mindset you will utterly defeat yourself because no matter what you do, you will fail sometimes. That's part of being human.


Yes, but the sheer fact that she is not willing to go as far as you may suggest that she isn't as patient or as willing to take a chance about stuff in general, not only about initiating a relationship, as you may want her to be.


I know nothing off the top of my head about you, other than that you're in your early 20s and you are in New Jersey. Maybe, if you have any special interests or curious about anything, you can try to indulge in them through meetup groups or something and see what kind of people show up. The more enthusiastic you are about going to new groups or indulging in new interests that are very foreign to you (i.e. the more you go out of your comfort zone), the more likely you will find these new demographics of people you have had little experience with before. There must be a ton of different groups around the tri-state area. I myself am in CT, and there are many groups this side of New York City. NYC itself has a ton, but even if you're in south Jersey there must be a lot of groups in the Philly area too.


If you know what to look for, AS folks (men and women) are everywhere! I have one AS female friend I met through swing dancing, since it was a mutual special interest of ours and she also happened to be local. There's an element of luck in finding them, but the more you get yourself out there amongst the people, the sooner you'll run into one. There was a possibility of going further with this female friend, but uh... I turned her down!

I'll agree, failing once in a while is, well, human nature... but to have a 100% failure rate isn't...


Don't get me wrong I know that's the case... I know that what one person thinks isn't the same as someone else. It's just that, like the entire human race, my desires aren't exactly tied to my cognitive reasoning, and since my desires are to develop friendship into love (as opposed to meeting a relative stranger for the purposes of "dating"), I doubt I will be finding love anytime soon...


Well I'm about a 20-minute drive from Manhattan (maybe more like an hour if there's traffic, though), but I avoid the city as much as possible... There's just too much sensory overload, everything is too expensive, and if you go into the city you have to set aside an entire free day for it, something I just don't have anymore. If I do go into the city, it's usually either on something with a group of people from my church (usually to some concert somewhere) or a school trip... The only time I went into the city on something that wasn't organized was to see the indie film Moon, which was only playing in Lincoln Center (if it were playing more locally, I would have gone there instead)...

As for groups more locally, the only ones I see anywhere in my area are either for 30+ couples or geared towards high school kids... nothing really there for young adults (most of the 18-30 demographic around here leave the state at the first opportunity)...

You do have an interesting point. It would seem entirely logical that if guys were having trouble with getting women, they might turn over to dating gurus, like Mystery, whom you mentioned above. I've read 4-5 chapters of the Mystery Method, fascinating stuff, but so many definitions and strategies, I would rather prefer something a little more straight to the point.

I digress. I think the reason why people are against data gurus is that the idea of using seduction methods to entice and seduce a member of the opposite sex is culturally taboo. It doesn't fit into the accepted belief that guys should ask out women and date them. I believe dating gurus are construed as being shady people, because the supposed purpose of their seduction techniques are to get women into bed. And I believe guys don't use these methods because they also believe that they are taboo, and more importantly, an act of desperation.

I suppose it is also a belief that guys who learn these seduction techniques have a upper hand advantage and can use that advantage to fool around with women. I bet if you wanted to date a girl, she would date you if she found you attractive or charming. However, ironically enough, if she found out that you were charming and attractive because you were learning techniques to seduce and charm her, she probably would be very pissed off, because a.) you're manipulating her emotions through what you've learned and b.) you're not being honest with her about how you truly are

I consider it also akin to plagiarism If people find out it isn't your original work, they will be furious at you for using someone else's writing to pass off as your own.

Personally, I don't care if guys follow the advice of dating gurus, like Mystery. The Mystery Method is supposed to allow you to pick up extremely attractive girls who would normally be unattainable by an average joe, who is not overly charismatic.

In truth, I believe beauty often breeds arrogance, rudeness, and superficiality, in women as well as men. I consider attractive women automatically to be roses with very sharp thorns, because in my mind, they tend to be very arrogant and hard to get from the start, because I'm sure that they are used to all kinds of guys hitting on them. So why should I waste my time pursuing a bunch of girls who tend to have overinflated egos and mixed-up priorities? I view attractive women very much the same way I view jellyfish.....beautiful to look at, but very painful to touch.

In truth, beauty often breeds profound loneliness. Not all pretty women are arrogant, rude, or superficial. Your assumption that they must have men hitting on them all the time is also inaccurate. Men are often intimidated by pretty women, and it's often only arrogant males - or guys who feel that they have nothing to lose - who make any overtures toward those women. Some very attractive women, after having been effectively shunned by the vast majority of the male populace, might actually become bitter toward men over time, as they can't understand why they're constantly being passed over in favor of their plainer sisters.