How do you 'settle'?

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In other words, you expect more than you are able to offer, given an almost certainly biased self assesment. Clearly the rest of the world sees you in the "5 or 6" zone at best. Big and ugly.

And that would answer your question about why you haven't been able to settle. Aiming out of your league. Being hopelessy, fantatically obsessed with appearance is not an attractive trait at any age. At 40 you should have long grown out of it and at least started to appreciate the deep beauty that exists in the world underneath the surface.

A person aged 40 should also be able to recognize and read facial expressions and body language. Are people who can't do that in the wrong too?

Well if he's truly a 5 or 6...going for a 7 or an 8 isn't that far of a stretch...women are attracted to character more than looks as long as the guy isn't hideous. The problem is the guys that are more like the 2 or 3 range on here and refuse to "settle" when in reality they refuse to date someone like themselves. I'm secure enough in my sexuality to know if a guy is good looking or not, and there are some ugly, goofy looking guys on here that have really high standards.

He says himself that it ain't working, so something is awry in his calculations.... Perhaps the rating system is flawed somehow


Slightly more complex. A man can be physically attracted to a women, yet find her 'personality' totally insufferable. That is the whole world of supermodels and glamour models: physically irresistable, personality vacated long ago.

Hey ManErg - I already addressed the idea that personality issues can make an attractive woman seem unattractive to a man; however personality can usually never make a woman seem attractive who is physically unattractive to a man.

I prefer other Aspies, and I prefer those who have the same interests and beliefs. I rarely look at physical appearance anymore.

I hope this isn't aimed at me. I don't think it's morally wrong at all, but his restrictions are obviously causing him grief. While not necessarily pathological in itself, it's problematic, and it would seem that is for understandable reasons. It's a mindset that could be construed as unhealthy because of the effect it has, and there are many other unhealthy practices we all do as people. Pretty simple.

I guess I have mixed feelings. On one hand, it's all about looks for me. On the other hand, it isn't about sexiness. The women I'm attracted to have been called everything from unattractive to average to cute to pretty to beautiful, but never really hot or sexy. But that does it make it any more right? It took me a few months longer than usual to cut off all contact from my ex because I liked her appearance so much. When people were asking me "What's so special about her?" I said "Well she doesn't even realize how pretty she is." Just because I like modest women, I'm not sure if that makes it anymore right. Pretty much the only personality characteristics I look for is being modest, not overly high-maintenance, not ditzy or snobby, and the only actual characteristic I look for is ability to hold a conversation and displaying intelligence (i,e, not a airhead).

So I'm not sure. I've had girls tell me "It's not shallow. You have a type that does it for you." Other people, including guy friends, think I'm an elitist jerk and shallow. So I'm not sure.

Orbyss, if the guy were attracted to women that were toxic in some way, that would be a problem. The women he's attracted to don't appear to be toxic per se - they don't lie, cheat, steal, abuse......they just don't seem to have personalities that appeal to him quite as much as their bodies do. That means he has a lot in common with just about everyone who's looking for a mate. Isn't that what everybody wants - someone they like, get along with, respect, and with whom they'd like to have passionate sex? Because I can't see anything pathological there - in fact, it's completely normal.

His desires are very typical of the male population in general. If he was actually atypical of the male population, there would certainly be very few large women (with great personalities) sitting at home alone.

He doesn't expect anything of a potential mate that he doesn't expect of himself, so he's not even holding himself to a different standard. Saying that a person should try to re-train who they're attracted to - in a situation like this - reminds me of people who think homosexuals can re-train themselves to become heterosexuals - and it's just as crazy, because there's nothing wrong with being gay. There's just nothing deviant here: he doesn't want to have sex with children, or dogs, or aliens, or women in a coma. It makes sense that he should either help his friend regain her own fitness, or only befriend and date fit women - until he finds one with a personality he likes.

Again, I'll repeat, I didn't say it was pathological. What I said was that he has a problem with it, and his mindset -- being only physically attracted to a very specific physical features, apparently regardless of personality (from what I understand) -- is giving him grief as it lowers his chances at finding someone, and even if he did, he may lose interest in them as they change and age.

It sounds to me that he's having trouble accepting having a sexual bond with someone who doesn't fit very specific criteria of his standards. It almost sounds to the point where, even if there was a woman who fit all the criteria, if she cut her hair short it would be a turn off. I could be wrong, so maybe he can clarify. I'd say that's a lot more extreme than anyone I know on a personal level, or that I've discussed it with, but I can't speak for anyone beyond that. Paraphilias seem similar, and the methods used to go about expanding themselves beyond their fixed sexual focus may be of use to him, that's why I brought it up.

As I said in my big post, the attraction is well within normal bounds. It's his problem with it -- what sparked this thread -- that I was addressing.

I've been settling, a.k.a. lowering my standards, since year 2001. Before then, I was naive enough to believe that an attractive girl would like me. But given how I'm barely a 4 out of 10, I'm well aware that not only is it unreasonable for me to date someone above a 6, even more so, I have no right to insist on it! So, I only approach girls/women who aren't very physically attractive, because it far more important for her to like me, than the other way around. Still, ideally, would I want to date a girl I think looks good? Yes! Do I look good? No! Therefore, do I have a right to insist on a good-looking girlfriend? No! So, ever since I went on my first date in 2001, and had my first relationship in 2007, and the other relationships I had since then, it was always with a girl who liked me, and she was far from the mainstream definition of "hot". In each of those cases, the girl was happy because she got to be with a guy she liked, and I was happy because I got to be with a girl. Now, don't get me wrong: despite not being attracted to them, I always treated them with respect, and quite likely, gave them one of the best relationships they've been in. Somehow, I'm able to completely override my biological drive to look for the "fittest" women, and focus mainly on how good are my chances with her. I don't know how I do it, but I'm very glad I have that ability.

With all that said, I can't help but wonder if I would have the same ability if I had a good-looking face and/or great social skills that NTs have. Would I still be like I am now, or would I suddenly start insisting on having a hot girlfriend? I may never know, but that doesn't stop me from wondering "what if?".

Hey! Thanks for this rather obvious, unhelpful, and mildly insulting post!
Since, apparently, you haven’t read the thread or you have some comprehension issues, yet seem eager to contribute, allow me to render the cliff’s note’s version AGAIN…

I’ve already identified my inability to settle for women ‘in my league’ as a problem. Mentally I can appreciate the deep beauty that exists in the world underneath the surface , but I have a problem translating that into a physical response.

The actual question posed by the thread is: how do other people settle ‘for someone in their own league’ and how can I learn to do this for myself?

(sorry man, that’s mostly a joke… mostly.)

Okay, now to everyone else, specifically lotusblossum, HopeGrows, and Orbyss, you’ve all given me very valuable food for thought.

@ Hope, I appreciate your suggestion of making a ‘fitness date’ with my friend. I’m not totally confident that it will work (I think that if you’re in a relationship that requires one of the people to change, you’re better off trying to affect the change in yourself rather than your mate), but it’s worth a try.

@ lotusblossum, thank you for stating the problem in a more scientific way—that’s probably something I should have done in the first post.

@Orbyss, thank you for tolerating my snippiness and posting again. In your second and subsequent post, I believe you’ve come closest to actually understanding my problem and answering my question.

After thinking on this today and reading the responses in the thread here’s my current theory on how most people can settle and why I and perhaps more than a few others around here can’t…

I’m beginning to think the ability to ‘settle’ has to do with socialization. One of the theories of socialization maintains that we learn the norms of our society by trying on certain behaviors that are then either positively or negatively reinforced by parents, peers, and others…

WARNING I’m about to use the 10 scale again. I’m sorry, but it’s the only easy way to explain this!

Say you are a male ‘5’ with the hardwired biological preferences for a female ’10’, you seek out a ‘10’ and try to interact, BUT she has a hardwired preference for a male ‘10’ and rejects you! So, next time you go for an ‘8’, but you’re rejected again…

Meanwhile, your peers are doing the same thing and the whole unpleasant process continues until you finally work your way down to a female ‘5’ who knows she’s a ‘5’ and she accepts you!! !

...and by this method your hardwired preference for a ‘10’ is slowly modified into and preference for another ‘5’ through positive and negative socialization!! !

I think that’s how the process goes for normal people. However, for someone like me, socially impeded, not especially attractive and pudgy as a kid, the socialization system breaks down.

I was almost universally shunned by my female peers and did not have any meaningful contact until my late teens when I began lifting weights seriously. Even then, the interaction was mainly unhealthy, drug assisted, sexual encounters with a ‘friend’.

I did not have my first healthy emotional and sexual relationship until my early twenties, with my future ex-wife. I’d say she was an ‘8’, smart, pretty and extremely athletic. We met in a work situation where I was in authority over a group of men. Even though I was probably only a ‘6’ I think she was attracted to me because I was physically powerful and in a dominant position over other men. She had a very ‘alpha’ personality and I was clearly the ‘alpha male’ in that situation. At any rate, being my first real experience with a female I think I ‘imprinted’ on her as the archetype for a desirable sex partner.

I think my inability to settle might spring from inadequate socialization with females while growing up, and my unusual success with one particular female who probably was ‘out of my league.’



You know, I think my socialization theory would explain this too. I’m sure many of these guys had little socialization with females growing up and therefore little opportunity to modify their hardwired biological ‘ideals’ via positive and negative reinforcement…

Of course, I could be wrong.

So you think your preferences will change as you socialize more, or do you think that opening has passed you by?

@ Orbyss

No, I think my window of effective socialization in this area has come and gone.

I think your suggestion of cognitive behavioral self training is a good one and something I’ve probably already been doing subconsciously for a while now.

GoonSquad - Yes, Aspies do tend to imprint (including, but certainly not limited to, sexual relationships). I don't know if you'll be able to modify your imprint. Combined with the idea that your concept of physical attraction seems inflexible (like most men) - I think it's a very big task.

As to your comment about only trying to change yourself within the bounds of a relationship - you really don't know if your friend is willing to change herself unless you present the question, right? Does it matter if your suggestion prompts her to start changing her body? Establishing a good routine is what's most important, and you can solve that problem for her, can't you? As she becomes healthier, she'll remember how great she felt, and she'll look forward to getting even more physically fit. And since you're an active guy, you'll be sure to keep her active, right?

Or you could find a therapist to work with and spend the time and money to try to re-train your brain to become physically attracted to large women. Seriously, which approach do you think has a better chance of working? If you're willing to spend the money on a therapist, I'd skip the re-training and think about exploring your issues with intimacy....because I suspect that's the real issue here. You've said you're risking the relationship you have with this woman, because you're heading straight for a showdown with her. Your impending rejection of her will end the relationship, and you'll lose another chance at having a relationship with someone who is a great fit for you on every level but physically. But if you support her and help her transform herself into a woman that is physically attractive to you....I guess you wouldn't have any excuses to remain alone - would you?

@HopeGrows

Yeah, I hear what you're saying and you may be right about a few things (intimacy issues and such).

Like I said before, I probably will try to do the 'fitness date' thing with her, and I hope it works. But, I'm afraid she'll just think it's my way of escalating the relationship and press the issue of sex. Still, it's worth a try and there's no reason I can't do that in tandem with some cognitive self-training…

As far as cognitive retraining goes—that's how I cope with life. Whatever little interpersonal success I've achieved in my life is wholly due to my ability to intellectually simulate what, apparently, NTs feel instinctively.
I pride myself on my capacity for empathy because I feel that it is one of the qualities that separate human beings from human animals, but for me, it is not natural. Rather, it is the product of a sort of homespun form of cognitive training administered to me by my mother and sisters when I was very young. I thank god that they took the approach of explaining to me my error when I behaved cruelly or inconsiderately and that at three and four I had the capacity to understand. I hate to think what sort of person I might be today if not for that.

Even so, I still don't have the empathy of a well-adjusted NT, but when I'm 'on', I do okay…

I don't think changing my sexual preferences will be easy. However, I do believe it's possible and necessary, and the first step in that process, for me, is understanding what determines them in the first place.