Yet ANOTHER never-been-loved loser in need of advice

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Snowy Owl
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28 Apr 2010, 11:40 am

Hmmm, wasn't expecting this thread to be bumped back up. :?

Oh, well. Time to update. I've just recieved word from my mother that there is job coaching for people with AS and other forms of autism somewhere in West Virginia or somewhere around there. This is sort of a step forward, if you ask me. :)



harry_j_83
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02 May 2010, 5:26 am

Sound wrote:
As an example, 18 was when I had my first girlfriend. Prior to then, and afterward, I had issues with getting a relationship. But 10 years later, I don't generally have much trouble finding/attracting/pursuing women, and maintaining a relationship with them. The reason my lot in love-life improved was twofold. First, I had help in identifying how my prior behavior was interpreted by others, and how it was linked to my sorry state of social-affairs. Second, I got fed up enough to put in the long, effortful process adapt my perspective and behavior so that I could eventually be more in-tune with everyone else. It took years, and it required changes, but it was worth it.

Some people don't believe changing one's self is a good idea. They think it's phony, an illusion, pretending, or at worst, manipulative. And yeah, I agree that some people do that.... But I believe one can change themselves and yet still be true to themselves as well. I feel that I did, so naturally I think the self-improvement paradigm is worth consideration. With work, and focusing on improving your social awareness, and the things you exude and communicate, you can find success. Sooner and more-so than I did, probably.
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at last some good advice! yes i think do need to take a generally more pro-active attitude towards life.

would be interested though to know how you in particular changed your outlook on things. i'm sure many on this site would be interested to know as well!



Sound
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02 May 2010, 8:20 am

Eh... that's a big question. =op

As mentioned, it took nearly 10 years of focus. In the beginning, I made very little progress per month, while within the past year, strangers around me were akin to friends waiting to happen, if I felt like putting in the effort. It is still quite draining to be sociable and outgoing, but I have more 'stamina' for such things now.

I can't readily go into useful details in this thread, because it would deserve it's own. However the larger points I can think of are thus:

1) I did not know I had AS until this year. No clue. Therefore, I had no mental excuse for being teh suck at socializing, and effectively I treated it as such. I just figured I stunk at it, and that by focusing on it, I could make myself un-suck. I bore no mentality of disability. I only perceived the lag, and not a barrier.
Therefore, even if this stuff takes more effort for us, I believe that if you do not see autism as a a limitation, then it will not be one.

2) I read, and read, and read, and read. Uncountable websites, and a couple books. Myriads of subjects covered: salesmanship, feminist concepts, masculine concepts, depression, perspective management, effective communication, fostering your self esteem, expectation management, and yes, a bit of pick-up (but shunning the manipulative stuff like routines). However, the knowledge wasn't as important as the perspective shifts that the knowledge helped me find.

Relate to knowledge, and perspectives, I realized that the fisherman who blames the fish for not biting is a bad fisherman.
And while we're talking about fish, I also realized that casting a broader net yields a better bounty - Focusing on just one catch makes for a fleeting meal that probably would've been equally good as another fish.

...Okay now I'm pushin' it...

One other thing that I gained from my readings is that everything is a communication, and no one thinks something for no reason. There is a reason for just about everything. If someone treated you like crap, there is a specific reason behind it. Sometimes it may have been simply a bad day on the person's part. But usually, it's because I/you personally broadcasted something that said "I should be treated like this." It could be body language, it could be the subtlety of your wording, it could be your clothes and advertised culture, it could be what I'm currently doing, etc. So I became conscious of all the potential messages I was sending, even by just standing in one place. Everything is a communication that people judge by.

3) I got out and about into uncomfortable and awkward social situations frequently, giving me better opportunities to practice. One of my biggest interests in life has been electronic and dance music - I love it. It's choice venues were raves, and then clubs. Back then, before the prevalence of internet radio, this was nearly the only place I could go to get my fix, so that's exactly where I went every week. And boy does that scene give the opportunity for varied and awkward situations... :lol:
So, lots of practice and lots of feedback. Knowledge and reading is nothing without practice.

4) I had help. Message boards like this one where I'd post and ask questions and describe my troubles. I have figured very little out on my own. And furthermore, I had IRL help - My older sister and I were (and are) fairly close, and she is what you'd call a social butterfly. As we were both into the same scene, she'd drag me along everywhere and continually introduce me to her friends, over the past 10 years. Heck, she still does. I was way out of my league constantly, with plenty of opportunities to come off like an awkward, oblivious nerd, but still, it was extremely good exposure. Further, I have been lucky enough to still have some solid friends from high-school and college years. They'd introduce me to their own friends. So even when I was unable to approach people and make friends on my own, I'd still end up being around new people. Of particular use were my sister's friends, mostly women, so their world, mindset, and perspective isn't quite so much an alien mystery for me anymore.

If you have close friends or family who might help, then ask them for help. Their knowledge or advice on the opposite sex or dating is probably flimsy, but what's more important are increasing your opportunities. You need to network, and having an ally who's working in your interest helps a ton.
However, this is risky, because if you already have a history for leaning on people, they will not want to be leaned on.

5) Eventually I adopted a more critical, logical process to figuring things out. With the help of advice from others, I began breaking down my interactions(mostly in retrospect) into component moments, where each moment/action tended to foster a certain message or vibe or whatever. This allowed me to start judging what was clear, properly interpreted, and effective, and what was not. However this didn't come much later, because early on I'd have lacked a knowledge of the cause/effect relationships among certain actions, and I'd also have lacked the ability to properly see the borders between potential 'components.' I don't know if that makes sense.... Sorry.

What I'm trying to say is that I am hyper analytical, and I learned to leverage that part of my personality. I just needed to learn the basics, and some intermediate stuff, first. I utilized my(possibly AS-derived) strengths to make up for my weakness in intuiting a situation.

6) I realized how important looks and style were. You can call such things shallow, but in this place called reality, looks make a massive impact. It's a form of communication. It sets the initial tone and criteria of judgment, it is people's first impression, and it is never, ever ignored. One might not be blessed with the face and body of a model, but that still doesn't mean you can't vastly improve the way you are perceived via looks. So I started to take better care of my appearance.

Get a haircut that's modern, that flatters your head's shape(focus on the silhouette). Even if your style is scruffy, it usually has to appear deliberate instead of accidental. Be conscious of the image your wardrobe illustrates. When you go clothes shopping, don't buy singular articles of clothes, based on their solo merit - Buy a cohesive outfit. Choose them by how they go with each other. Prioritize the fit over the style, manage your body silhouette. Find a fashion-conscious friend to help you shop for clothes. And I'm sure there's websites out there dedicated to this topic from a nerdy man's perspective.... I should look that up.

7) Through my struggles against failure and inadequacy, I forged successes and progress by my own hand. I crafted the basis of why I think I'm a cool person(mostly), up to the point where I don't have to convince myself that people are going to appreciate me when they get to know me. I didn't simply wake up and realize something and *PING!* had confidence. Nope, I lacked it, utterly. I tried to fake confidence for a stretch of time, but ultimately it was not the thing that gave me real confidence.... That's a house without a foundation. It was my struggles that gave me confidence. That includes the overwhelming depth of 'fail' that goes along with it, because if it was easy, I would not have been proud of my progress. I also discovered that progress is as good as achievement. Sometimes, it's better, because progress is something happening now, and achievement is just a fading history to hearken back to. This is why it is worth starting from the very bottom of the pit, because you gain as much from starting as you do from 'finishing.'

As a dumb example, I am physically weak. Puny, a wimp, incapable of doing much independent physical work. I didn't used to care about this until like 2-3 years ago, but I do now. Starting in November, I began doing a set of push ups once every day(...if I remember...), as many as I can. Eventually I added in a second set of push-ups later on in the day. In November, I could do I think 15 without stopping. Now I can do 30 without stopping. Progress. I'm getting there, it's working. It took 5-6 months to get that(and I haven't been especially rigorous either), but I'm going to look the way I want to look, and be capable of doing the things I want to be capable of doing. I am not standing still, languishing in my inadequacy, I am moving.... As a matter of fact, I'm gaining momentum.

Gaining momentum on a challenge is critical. For me, it has been the biggest part of garnering self esteem and confidence. Therefore, one of the most powerful ways of finding a relationship is to embark upon and commit to seemingly totally un-related goals. Accomplishing them also goes a long ways to reinforce your existing sense of hope, to make it feel more permanent.

So in summary, do what it takes to appreciate yourself, and build self-esteem. Your actions are it's source. Self-improvement is the key to confidence - the bigger the mountain, the bigger the payoff, and not just when you finish, but while you stick with it. The more things you have going and the more challenges you willingly face, then the more sources of confidence you garner.

Um.... Well I'm sure there's more broad points, but I totally overstepped my intended length by a mile so I'll stop here. Gah.



Shamelessbookworm
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05 May 2010, 12:01 pm

monsterland wrote:
You need to develop yourself into someone you can like. Then someone else can like you for who you are.


Totally true. Love yourself first, then other people will start to see how awesome you are.



monsterland
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05 May 2010, 2:39 pm

alana wrote:
some thoughts. I was not bullied in school, nor did I bully. Bullying disgusted me. My emotional maturity, when it came to compassion, was actually far above my peers. I was bullied horribly at home by my father, and being that I spent far more time at home I think I probably got the raw end of the stick. I don't believe in social 'maturity', I believe there is an innate ability to 'shuck and jive' and there is ability (or not) to compensate for a deficit in that area. NT's bully because of perceived lack that they are trying to obfuscate. In physical bullying a lot of times you are seeing an abused child in repetition compulsion. It is the bullying, not the target, that is abnormal and antisocial and needs adjustment.


To me, "social maturity" means developing an ability to survive in social settings. To read some prominent audio and visual cues, to flow with conversation, to redirect subtle verbal attacks without snapping, and to know what to ignore and when.

I do very much believe such skills exist, and without them, in adolescence, like the OP, the person ends up being a target for cruel children, who always pick on those most likely to budge.

Similarly, if you walk with a straight, balanced posture at night, aware of your surroundings, you're far less likely to be mugged than someone walking bent into a C-shape, staring at the asphalt, with headphones in their ears.

When someone asks "how do I minimize my chances of being mugged ?" I will tell THEM what to do, because it's THEM who I can talk to right now. I cannot go and jail the muggers myself, who are obviously THE ONES IN THE WRONG.

Similarly, the only thing I can do in a thread like this is to tell the OP how to change themselves in order to ease their problems, because I'm communicating with the OP, and not with their bullies, who are obviously THE BAD ONES.