Charisma, can it be developed? Do some aspies lack it?

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I like to think of it as having plenty of self-awareness rather than self-esteem, I know where I shine: academia, dancing, making jewelry (among others)...and I know where I FAIL: organization, controlling my temper, resisting lemon cream cookies (among others).

And I know there's such a thing as an intelligent NT...I like to think I AM an intelligent NT (at least the those pesky IQ tests say so) It's the hubby who's AS.

The point I was initially trying to make (and rereading, I really don't think I was as clear as I should have been) is that there may be more contributing to the sense of awkwardness people feel in social interaction than just being AS. From what I understand, AS correlates highly with above average intelligence, and I just wanted to point out that feeling out of place and strange can go hand-in-hand with just being the smartest person in the room, AS or NT.

A former friend of mine, who always thought she was just "teasing" me, would pretend to start snoring if my conversation became, not even too academic, just too complicated. Message received loud and clear: It's boring when you talk about things you're thinking about. Let's talk more about shopping!

I guess what I was shooting for was a kind of small comfort measure...like when my husband is griping about being clumsy because he's whacked his head on something again and I remind him "Honey, you're 6'2"...there had to be some downside to being so tall!"

I think the rules are generally the same if we are talking about charisma. The goal at least is basically the same, getting people to believe in you and have them do what you want. Actually, there may be some marketing principles at play in everyday charisma. I think one thing that is important to all charisma is to seem trustworthy. That way people want to be around you and follow you, whether in the political arena or not.



Obama can be an interesting example. In 2006 I took a class about Russian politics. The professor was predicting that a Senator Obama from Illinois would become the next president of the United States because he was the most charismatic politician he had seen since Vladimir Putin. This was a pretty bold prediction at this point in time. If Obama didn't have an amazing amount of personal presence there was no way he was getting through the primaries against the older, better known and established, but less charismatic Hillary Clinton. Not to say that everyone who voted for him did so because of his charisma, but I am saying he wouldn't have won without it.



I'm not sure it is irrelevant. I've just been viewing everyday charisma as almost the same as political charisma, but on a much smaller scale. Politics isn't solely decided by charisma, so it gets confusing, but I am trying to focus on the charisma aspect of politics when I am mentioning it. Also, I guess you could say I am taking a roundabout shot at highly charismatic people by comparing them to politicians.


You don't have to be a politician to work a crowd. Generally, I think this one is right. I'm just saying that at optimal levels, with enough charisma you could get away with not doing some of them.

Another one where you wish you could have the specific numbers. Body language is a pretty big box, I suspect.

I didn't say it was wrong. I just said it wasn't intuitive. I might not respect such a person, but I am not most people. With this one in particular I think there is a very delicate balance that is difficult to get right.

Habits, that's close, part of what I meant at least. I'd also say something about brain wiring, too. Some of us are just wired differently.


You'd need some charisma at the start to pull this one off. It can be difficult to seem to someone that you don't have an ulterior motive if your vibes are wrong.

You're right, aspects of marketing is charisma, and vice-versa.

But I'm still not seeing the major connection between political charisma and every-day charisma. For instance, from what I gather of him so far, if I met Obama in real life, and he held no place of office, and acted congruent with the 'face' he puts on for public events and speeches, I think I might find him a bit of a dry, bland, though pleasant enough. Certainly not charismatic, because of how bland and generic interactions with him would be.
Talking with him while sitting at the pub? BORING! There's no way he'd be the center of attention in a group.

But that's to be expected, because that's just his game face. That's the personality he adopts for the public. It's the personality that has proven to offend the least amount of people, and gain approval from the most amount of people. THAT'S marketing, not charisma. Acting like that has no bearing in every day life. Nor does it have much bearing if you're the lead singer of a band. Nor does it help a guy turn ladies' heads.

Now, perhaps he actually is charismatic IRL, if his normal, relaxed persona had a bit more spice, did not need to measure every word spoken. But we have no way of knowing. We are allowed only to see the mass-market Obama brand, and that's all we know. The idea of him, the product, not the person. That's what it usually takes to play the U.S. political game.

Now, a politician who seems like they've got real charisma? BIDEN! That's a guy I'd wanna hang out with! Not nearly so canny a politician and marketeer though.

I'm not saying charisma doesn't factor in politics... I think the Clinton/Obama comparison was probably an apt example. Their political and marketing acumen, and their team's strategies were both top notch, so far as I can tell, but the personality/face of Obama seemed to win out, all other things being relatively equal. Charisma made the difference, there. But charisma aside, if he didn't have that acumen, no way, because Clinton was very good at both angles.
So my point... Charisma is important in politics, but is still only a fraction of what's important. Not only that, it's such a censored, watered down version of charisma, it just seems way too specific compared to other versions of charisma.

Like rockstar charisma! Guys like David Lee Roth (HOLY s**t!!), their charisma is radically different... But, IMO, more similar to 'normal' usable charisma, like what we would actually find useful on a day-to-day basis. Political charisma doesn't compare.

I dunno man, it seems to me that you're either looking for political charisma, or you're looking for 'normal' charisma. The more I think about it, the more they seem so far separated, to me. Kinda like the difference between pub charisma, and job interview charisma (although, those cross over a little).

Definitely right on the money there, but it's good to also observe before taking part.

Too true. But it's easy to go overboard though, and let it keep one from taking the difficult step into the fray.

That's the same thing I've been aiming for in this thread. I'm suggesting charisma level as a different factor than AS, so I appreciate it.

This could be the case for many who are multiple standard deviations from the mean in other factors, going either way. I wonder if it would it be harder to be the smartest or the dumbest person in the room I wonder?

Some people only want to talk about certain topics *cough, aspies*. I guess it doesn't just apply to aspies. My short term auditory retention is very bad, especially in a situation as stressful as conversation, so I would probably be averse to a conversation that was too complicated, myself. Some people just can't handle complicated conversations.

I'm not sure I get this. Who is the comfort measure aimed towards?

I'm not talking about when he is in a pub with regular people, although I think he probably couldn't help but be the center of attention if he entered any pub considering his status. And I would say status definitely has an effect on charisma, and politicians can be an extreme example of that. I am talking about how he operates with his peers in the Senate. He most certainly was the center of attention, one of the best ever at drawing others to him, although he is sputtering on his health care because of bipartisanship.

Getting on stage and drawing hordes of groupies to yourself without having to talk to them all individually? That sounds like political charisma to me, just with more stupid looking hair (on second thought, some political hair is pretty bad...), and skankier groupies. Or am I just looking at the function of charisma?

I still think it's all one and the same charisma, just the manifestation is different depending on the situation.

On another note, I wish I had more time for the conversation in this thread and maybe focus the topic more on L & D because this is the L & D forum. This discussion has been helpful.

Yesterday, I think I found a way for me to increase my charisma because I have actually produced results with it, already. I believe it is a method that will work for some of those who like myself have bad body language and have put in failed efforts to improve social skills over years. The advice is a bit unconventional, even bizarre, and may sound somewhat alarming. If someone wants to hear it I will post it when I have more time. I'm not sure if it would be better in this thread or if I should start a new one. I don't have the time to do a good job of giving the idea justice if I tried to post it now, but I will say that it has something to do with your mindset.

Last edited by GoatOnFire on 27 Mar 2010, 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, since it was in the L&D context, I assumed it was charisma as it relates to most people. The way in which, say, Obama's charisma expresses itself is wholly different from some of my more popular friends. As you've illustrated, the idea of charisma in that political context is wholly valid, and I'm sure there's tons in common with both 'kinds,' but there's enough different that it'd make discussion hard without narrowing down the context.

Regarding the David Lee Roth example, I think you're looking at the end result, more than the means. Although Obama & DLR get a similar reaction, their ways of going about it.... Well.. Yeah.
I'd be very keen to see Barry in some tiger striped shiny polyester leotards though.

I'd love to hear your idea, though. And I think you're right that it deserves it's own topic.

I never had a problem being high-energy and charismatic, but just had a lot of bad feedback. I have a horrible natural barometer for being socially acceptable, so when I cut loose, it's inevitable for me to say something odd or get carried away and weird people out.

I think you just have to learn to not care. There's billions of people in this world, and even if you weird out a whole group of them every day, you'll still not get everybody in your whole lifetime.

Just watched a documentary about a particular high school cross country team, and it's 50-year coach, who continually win state championships.
Their coach is an example of supreme charisma. It's his charisma as well as his leadership skill which pushes their organization to excellence.
I watch a lot of documentaries, and this one was very good. Give it a look.
The Long Green Line @ Hulu