How low can you go?

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That's the funny thing about "real" relationships. They are all based on material and physical realities but we like to dress them up in pretty language to comfort ourselves from some rather horrifying truths.

Roissy's maxims apply even to Longterm relationships. There are plenty of times when a woman will stay with a man she doesn't love because she is acutely aware that no other man would want her because of her age/lack of reproductive capacity. This is made even worse for women who can't take care of themselves.

Also look at Roissy's point about the "4 sirens of the sexual apocalypse" and how it affects the dating world. I differ from Roissy in that I frankly don't enjoy chasing tail (which is what it all boils down to, no matter how much we delude ourselves) because the amount of effort I need to put into it is far beyond any reward that I would get out of it.

You remind me a lot of my younger self. I thought I needed a woman to validate me until I stripped all the BS of societal expectations and zeroed in on what I truly wanted. What I want is simple and real.

Also:

Also how are you dressing? You need to work on losing weight and then get fitted for a suit.

What are you eating daily? I'd work on cutting out bread completely and switch over to cheap cans of tuna and a handful of nuts for lunch. Broccoli slaw is cheap and nutritious as well.

ADHD medication like Adderall XR does a wonderful job of curtailing hunger.

This advice has been repeated to you zillions of time by many : Lose weight.

Weight can be changed (unless if it's due to some chronic disease) unlike other undesired physical traits in men such as extreme ugliness or shortness.

It's not a guaranteed way , but you have nothing to lose ....except your excess of fat which is harmful to your health.


Well ...my best advice is ....

just try ....

And remember , don't forget to live while you're seeking to live with someone.

And oh remember that too..... celibacy (even if it's Involuntary celibacy) isn't that bad too if you adapt to it and stop thinking too much about coupling.

Actually on the weight loss subject I have been having some limited success. I've lost about 20 pounds in the last month (or about 9 kilos for those outside the US), so I'm not completely useless in that regard.

Attaboy!

What was the change you made?

You'll notice changes with improved habits.

I don't think weight matters that much for women. I often see very overweight guys with really skinny women but congrats on losing some weight Toad. I should lose a little myself. I need to quit eating so much snacks. I could save some money to

Mostly it was getting off my ass and walking for about an hour each day. I'm starting to incorporate running into that as my legs shape up a little and I recover some endurance. Other than that, there was some reasonable dietary control (i.e. cutting down heavily on the snacking, and eating healthier things when I do). But I can still enjoy a good chicken parm every now and then, so it's not all bad...

As for noticing change, something like losing weight is easy for me to notice because it's a concrete quantifiable result. I can look at the scale and notice that I'm 20 pounds lighter.

That's so exciting! I'm delighted to hear it. I remember when I was horribly out of shape and the whole concept of moving aroubnd seemed like a burden and a drag and it did hurt when I first started but then it got more and more...right. This is what our bodies evolved to do. Our ancestors walked everywhere (they didn't have a choice until they domesticated rideable animals). Sometimes they ran, when they had to. Mostly they walked a whole lot. And when we let that slide, our bodies suffer. When you get back to the ancestral roots of walking a lot and sometimes breaking out into a run, your body rejoices (eventually) that it's doing what it was meant to do.

So...yay!

My standards are really not that high. If I like them, they're good. There can be all kinds of reasons I like a woman. The only thing I don't like is people who say I want A B and C in a woman/man. I won't even be friends with people like this because they always look for someone to dump their problems on in which they purposely sought out to get. But don't let that get you down, most people I know don't think that way, at least not openly.

Good job I'm trying to lose weight too.

I found this thing online called the "couch to 5k" plan...it's basically interval training that works up to running. If you're handling a little running you might be able to do it. I tried it and I could not tolerate it, but I have some health problems along with being overweight. (Not to mention that it's over 100 degrees here, lol.) Here's the plan

In my local paper recently there was an article about a couple in my city who have been married for 64 years. The man is 90. At their age I doubt their bodies would be particularly capable of sex even if that were an issue. To be happily married for that long, there has to be something, other than the feeling nobody else will have her, keeping them together - namely love. Isn't that something worth hoping for?


What you want is sex, but Toad's primary desire is a mutual and loving relationship.

ETA: I read the 16 Commandments of Poon on Roissin's blog. Most of them are disturbingly manipulative, controlling, and abusive. Some of them will land you in Court. I'd run a mile if I saw any of those traits in my partner. It's a shocking way to treat anybody, nevermind a potential partner.

That couple is from a different time period and a vastly different culture than what we have now. The woman in the story has more than likely internalized the norms and cultural expectations for women of her time period (1946 is VASTLY different from 2010).

Your problem is that you hope for something that is from a bygone age.

They are called "good old days" because they were good, old, and now gone.



When you are a virgin, you get all sorts of flowery garbage stuck in your head. Toad is not happy with himself and it seems that he subconsciously wants a woman to take care of him (not much different from a son to mother relationship).

Women don't want a boyfriend they have to take care of. They want a boyfriend who can take care of them and be one they cannot dominate. Nobody is there to really look out for you.

In the end, all you have is yourself. If you rely on others for your financial, physical, or emotional security you will be let down.

His attitude (and appearance) are stopping him from starting a relationship. I personally think he is better off getting an escort to get rid of that desperation he has and eliminate the flowery crap holding him back. He especially needs to get a very attractive escort to make him realize that no woman is out of his league.



Roissy's 16 commandments are based on managing women from a culture that places no restraints on their worst impulsive behavior (ie America).

I understand your sentiments. We aspies are very rule-based and we have a (far too) strong sense of fairness and justice. NTs don't play that way. Their world is one of emotions not reason. They live by the maxim "The Chase is Better than the catch".

The biggest mistake that we aspies can make is trying to change the thought patterns of 6 billion humans. We are better off learning to navigate their ugly world and make it work to our best advantage.

I personally have no taste for manipulation or mind games, which is part of why I enjoy escorts. The investment I put in coincides with the job I get paid for and is commensurate with the payout.

I just read the 16 rules too. As a woman, I would not give them out as advice. I will say that there are elements of them that are partially true...but as you said, we are very rule based. Many of us also look at things in a very black and white manner. Given this, it's hard to not look at the rules without seeing them in a concrete manner. I think I understand what the author is trying to say, but if you don't already know them yourself then the way he explains them sort of defeats the whole purpose. If you're in a comfortable/honest relationship, adhering to some of these rules could kind of screw up your relationship. Trying to pick up a woman, on the other hand, having the "eh..I could do without you" attitude seems to work on a lot of girls.

I dunno...I guess it just seems that all the advice says 'play hard to get' and logically if we all do this, how does anyone get in a relationship? Lol.

Go with OKCupid then . . . but good luck having someone actually reply to you. I've sent out 7 messages and not one has replied back in the week or so that I've posted. I'm a few steps shy of just abandoning the possibility at this point (seeing as how I've not dated face-to-face in 10 years).

Yes, I realised when I posted it that it was probably a bad example, but it was the first one I could think of. Even so, it does suggest that love isn't as extinct as you seem to portray.


No. I hope for something real. Old, yes, but not obsolete. I agree that a lot of people want a girl just for the sex - you being a prime example, but I'm not the only one looking for a mutual relationship: Makuranososhi just got married. I wouldn't even think of asking the question but I'd put money on them not being in it just for the sex.

I have no inclination to have sex. I'm just not interested. It doesn't dominate my thoughts - in fact it rarely registers, and then only because of discussions like this one. However, one day I would like to be a father.


There's a difference between caring for your boyfriend and mothering them. A mutual relationship is one in which both parties help each other. It's not one in which one person has to be the boss all the time, or where one person has to do all the work of looking after the other with no help in return.


This is somewhat irrelevant. Yes, you have to have a certain amount of confidence and emotional security in yourself, but that doesn't prevent a relationship in which you choose to have another person share your life.


I'm somewhat confused by this. What is the "flowery crap" you keep referring to, and what is it holding him back from? As for the escorts: if he is interested in a mutual relationship rather than a sexual one, an escort is not going to help.


I disagree. It is not without reason. If it were, we would have no legal system, no science, and no innovation...oh, and no stable relationships.


At last, something we agree on, although just because we have to navigate their world doesn't mean we have to emulate the worst of them to do so.


And yet you support Roissy's 16 commandments which are manipulation and mind games in a box.

I think it's TOS's desire to find a partner who he likes, cares for, and respects, and who likes, cares for, and respects for him. This is, of course, totally unreasonable, as is his idea that one's partner should be a friend. All those expectations are, of course, nonsense.

(For the possibly confused, yes, I was being heavily sarcastic.)

May you all find happiness.

Last edited by Moog on 22 Jun 2010, 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.