Much older man

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I really like your honesty, reginaterrae. From what you say, you were attracted to this man before seeing the farm so I don't see any reason to call you a gold digger, but brace yourself, if things work out you'll hear it in real life too.

I wouldn't worry that much about the age difference either - you seem very practical about it, but I would thread carefully with the girlfriend situation - inflicting pain on others at the beginning of a relationship can create a lot of baggage later. It's difficult but sometimes it can be done in a "civilised" way I think.

It's a bit of a gamble with the kids - since they are not very young themselves, they might be less jealous and possessive with him. I would be grateful in a similar situation - if someone brought some happiness and joy into my father life's as I've seen too many old people just fading away.

Chances to happiness and love (even short lived) don't come around that often - I wish you luck with it and I really hope you won't give up something that might be great for you and also for him (his situations doesn't sound so happy now), because of a few judgemental reactions.

Last edited by Sallamandrina on 07 Jul 2010, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Apologies. This was the quote that confused me:

3), what would the circumstances of my life with him be, i.e., would our lifestyles or lifestyle goals mesh? which is the farm, but in this also goes, am I ambitious to make something of myself in this world? (no, I'm exhausted with trying to make it independently in this world), or would I be happy staying home with a retired husband, and mostly dependent on him

OK, full stop. I'm sorry I even posted here. I am not sleeping with a married man (for the record, I wasn't having sex with the estranged-but-still-married boyfriend, either). I am not trying to sleep with someone's boyfriend. I have a crush on someone who is, yes, currently in a relationship, and I hope, yes, that he will decide to end that relationship and start one with me instead. I have no intention of fooling around behind her back, and I am sure he would not do that either. It's one or the other, stay with her or take a chance on me instead. I understand that his current relationship has been disappointing, for very obvious reasons. I also understand him still being with her anyway, in the absence of a better alternative -- like someone pointed out, it's not that easy to find someone, especially after a certain age. I find him exciting, sexy, smart, good, kind, honest, and open-minded. I love the work he has done on his farm, the house, the whole thing -- it's not just beautiful, it impresses the hell out of me that HE has done all this. The callouses on his hands are a turn-on, the beat-up boots, the well used tools. If he married me next month and died the month after, and I ended up out on the street because his children got the farm and I had (obviously) given up the apartment I'm in now, I trust that God would put my feet back under me. Why? Because my conscience is CLEAR. I have no ambition to inherit anything, but for Pete's sake, should I lie and say I wouldn't like to live on his farm until the day I die? Actually, I'm not even sure I would, because his house has way too many split levels and way too many stairs and it would probably mean building a whole new structure for the reduced mobility of old age. But whatever, the farm is not the thing. I love the farm, it's part of the thing, but it's all wrapped up in the MAN. I sure as hell wouldn't want the farm if it came with a lesser man, any more than I was willing to stay in a very well paid, very secure job with lots of perqs but that my conscience rebelled against (and most people would have seen it as idealistic, I just have a very acute sense of economic justice and I thought we were doing more harm than good).

So f"thank" you for sharing, and good night.

Sounds like a mess, hopefully it sorts itself out soon. If he does turn out to be single after the mess is over then go for it if you're attracted to him. I think they need to sort themselves out first by the sounds of it.

Did you miss the next line, that says "I do have a part-time job, with benefits, to cover any incremental expenses, so I shouldn't be a financial burden on him"?

The thing is that I'm trying to figure out what exactly she doesn't want, why she doesn't want to marry him. One guess is that she's been dependent on a husband for so long that she wants to prove to herself that she could make it on her own, that she doesn't have to be supported. Because her current husband, despite the 5-year legal separation, still pays the mortgage, phone, cable TV, water, electric, etc. etc. etc., AND gives her an allowance for living expenses. One of the last things the "old man" complained to me about her was that she said "we're going to have a garden!", meaning she and I, reginaterrae, and his response was "I thought we had a garden" (at his place). The garden I'm working on with her is at the dweebish husband's place. But she wants it to be a market garden. I don't know, I can't figure her out, but it's at least a theory that one reason she turns him down is that she does not want to go from being dependent on one man to being dependent on another. She wants to prove herself, she wants to make her own living. Despite the fact that she seems to share all my executive functioning disability and then some. The "old man" has offered to let her move in, even in separate bedrooms, just so she can stop being dependent on the husband, but she refuses. So the fact that I'm NOT ambitious to make it on my own, that I am willing to be a help-mate, live quietly and peacefully at whatever level he lives at, is a meaningful difference. Remember, this guy's generation didn't expect a wife to make her own independent living; a loving wife was one who was content to back him up in whatever kind of living he could make to support the family. I am NOT a gold-digger, I was doing just fine raking in my own gold and chose, voluntarily, to let it go. I want "the good life", but it's not about money or even security. It's about peace and love and a productive life, and ALL those things are with him/on his farm.

I mean, I'm trying to read these people's minds, I totally don't know them well enough to even pretend to do that, but I am guessing ... she turns him down, at least partially, because she's not ready to retire, she wants to prove herself, she wants to try to make her own living ... and he is disappointed because she seems to turn her nose up at what he offers. She's not willing to live the lifestyle that he could and wants to provide. And I don't turn my nose up, his and my vision of the good life coincide, I want what he wants, not just because he wants it, no, but because we have the same vision. So what's wrong with that?

Thank you, Sallamandrina. I am feeling a little besieged right now, so I much appreciate your post.

Sorry for that - this can be a pretty friendly place on occasions, but can also get extremely judgemental sometimes. If it really upsets you you can ask a moderator to lock the thread

At the end of the day it's your life - what strangers on the internet (and even people IRL) think about it shouldn't weight much in your decision. It's funny how some don't seem to see that a happy relationship with you might improve this man's life too..

Yes, but you would also be living in his nice house. And unless he has a cast iron will and made sure his kids get it, it will go to you on his death, as will the 54acre farm. And you did mention that it was one of the 3 things that attracted you to him and you couldn't separate your love from him from love for his farm...

And then there's statements like this:



That doesn't exactly sound as if you plan to leave the inheritance to his children. You may not be a gold digger- I apologise for jumping to conclusions- but can you understand where the confusion arose?

But hey, you're an adult. You're old enough. So's he. I just feel sorry for his poor girlfriend.

ETA this is a response to:

Yeah ... even hers, right? I mean, one of the best things to ever happen to me was getting fired from a bad job at age 20. It doesn't look good from the outside, but I was miserable, yet never would have quit, and then I ended up somewhere MUCH better afterwards. This relationship clearly isn't ideal for her, either, and maybe if the old guy "fired" her, she could find someone else who would motivate her to resolve the lingering issues she has with her marriage and finally move on.

Some 25 years ago, I spent a couple years in Al-Anon (so why am I just ending a relationship with a man who calls vodka the "breakfast of champions"? that's a topic for another thread). Anyway, there's an important lesson I learned: I have to figure out what is the right thing for ME, and if it's right for me it cannot possibly be wrong for the other person or people involved. Because we don't have competing "Higher Powers". My HP is his HP is her HP. The best I can do is to -- in Catholic terminology, discern God's will for me, or in Al-Anon terminology, the 11th step: "sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him, asking only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out". If I am conscientious about discerning God's will for me, and following it to the best of my ability, I cannot harm the other person(s), because the One God's will for me cannot contradict his will for anyone else. It makes me not a very good Catholic, because the active discernment I learned in Al-Anon trumps the rule-based morality of the Catholic or just about any other church; but I think it is a true and valuable, fundamental life lesson.

Last edited by reginaterrae on 07 Jul 2010, 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So what, I should only be interested in men who live with their mothers, or in rat-infested public housing projects, or .... ? Actually I don't like his house that much, but whatever, at least it has a nicer kitchen than I have here.



Yes. He did not inherit his farm, he chose the land and made it into the farm it is. And yes, when you're talking about marriage to a 78-year-old man, you'd better like his lifestyle, or you're not going to be happy with him. He is not a blank slate, nor am I, nor is his gf, which is why compatibility between his and my (or incompatibility between his and the gf's) vision of a happy lifestyle is relevant to a prospective relationship between us.



I can understand it, if the confusion arose from taking that line completely out of context of the rest of the post it came at the end of. In toto:



IOW I have no plans either to leave the inheritance to his children or take it for myself. It's not mine to leave to anyone, it's his! And again, what, I'm a gold-digger unless I stick with busboys and grocery-cart pushers? No offense to anyone with those jobs, but wtf? I am well within my social stratum, honey, make no mistake. The men I used to date would sneer at this farmer. Again, I used to make considerably more money than I gather he ever made (based on comments he's made about what a high salary the gf's husband rakes in, that to me was not such an impressive number). I gave up that salary voluntarily, and those inane white-collar pretty boys, because I wanted a lifestyle that would be more meaningful to me. His lifestyle seems meaningful to me. Beautiful, pleasant, and good. He raised beef cattle without spraying or over-medicating or any of the ills of modern mega-agriculture. He's a SMALL farmer, not some big wealthy agribusinessman, but he's a conscientious and GOOD farmer. That means a hell of a lot more to me than money. I've had money, I prefer this good man, and his good farm.

What's all this about stealing? It takes two people with free will, to make a switch like this. And it's kind of refreshing to hear about people who negotiate a new deal without needing to have a dirty weekend first.

Thanks, TD

Actually, let me amend this. Our modern immigrant leagues (again, around here, at least) are amateur. The league "old guy" used to play in in the 50s was at least semi-professional. He was paid to play. I say "semi-professional" because I'm not sure all the players were paid, I think they may only have paid a few ringers, the best players. Also I am guessing they were local leagues, not big-time national ones like MLS. I don't know, but I will ask him more about it. Anyway, after that wave of European immigrants outgrew football, the sport declined so dramatically it all but died out in this country, so much that it seems it was never here. It only began its comeback when the Latino immigrants brought it back. Still, "old guy" himself did play professionally, in this country, and his dad played for the US in the Olympics even earlier.