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foreveryoung
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21 Aug 2010, 9:48 pm

I know a few men I graduated high school with who are marrying below average looking women. One of the guys is model looking and was the guy all the girls wanted and still looks good, and is fiancee is short, chunky, and has a below average face. The shallow women (not saying all women are shallow) seem to care what their friends or random women on the street think when they see her with her boyfriend. Personally, while I care about physical attraction, it isn't to show off...and they usually aren't the show-off material type of women anyway. Women seem to be in contention for the same 10 or 20 percent of men. While men care about looks, no one guy will agree on a woman.



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21 Aug 2010, 10:04 pm

^^ She's pregnant. Ooops.



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21 Aug 2010, 10:07 pm

Nothing wrong with attraction - I'd say necessary in a relationship - I don't get attracted to either gender so I don't know what it is that people go for. In the media - it's a very specific look for men and women that's considered attractive, though in real life people of all sorts of looks hook up - but yes, shallow women typically go for a certain type of guy, while shallow men typically go for lots of girls.



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22 Aug 2010, 1:15 am

BPalmer wrote:
http://www.inmalafide.com/2009/08/06/george-sodini-and-the-contract-between-the-sexes/

The sort of males who are being rejected would not have, all that long ago. This article shows the damage that has been done. The way things are now is not "the way things have always been."



try interesting yourself in a woman's mind (and desires, and personhood), and maybe sex (that has a significance beyond body parts) will follow.

to be clear, what i mean is: if a woman is no more than the gatekeeper to physical pleasure, for which you do "good deeds" to earn favors, you deserve no one.

why i am commenting on such an appalling article, i have no idea.


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22 Aug 2010, 2:06 am

Stellar wrote:
I'm sorry if I appeared to be cold and harsh. I was just being blunt; its not a personal attack on anyone. What I meant to convey if that guys have to go out there and actually approach women in order to have a chance. I know they don't find it to be easy, but how else are they going to meet women? I'm just saying that women can't do all of the work in starting a friendship, or more.

I know having normal social contacts is a tough task for a lot of people. I am one of those people. I hate the phone, I don't even like going out to gatherings of any kind, and again, I hateee the phone. I would rather not have a phone but it's just a lot more convenient for emergencies and I need one for the places I volunteer at. I am constantly having to email or text or telephone, and I dread it most of the time. Anyways, point is that I understand what you're saying, because I find it emotionally draining to keep up unnecessary social relationships.

I'm not saying that you guys can't be nerds or whatever else you call yourselves. A lot of women actually like guys who are great with electronics and who are really smart. These guys are probably "my type," if I even have one. I'm only saying that you guys can't really expect to get laid or have a relationship if you don't put your self out there to at least a few women. I'm not saying that because women are shallow; its because we don't have a directory of all the guys in our town, so if you never go out and never introduce yourself, we may or may not know that you even exist.

It's okay to be awkward or nervous. Most of us aren't going to think you're creepy just because of that. Practice is still good though, because it desensitizes you a little tiny bit. Rejection is bound to happen to everyone, and getting over the fear of rejection is part of learning how to talk to the opposite sex (or the same sex) comfortably.


And I'm sorry for sounding like a total dipshit in my last post. I'm just really, really tired of hearing the same "get out there" advice over and over again.

It's not the actual talking that's an issue with me. Once I know the situation is safe, I can actually do okay conversationally. It's getting to that point where I know it's safe that's the hard part. In a familiar setting surrounded by friendly people (or at least people I know), it's easy to talk to strangers. I've done it in my church repeatedly (now the hard part is finding women my age who would attend a church... it's rather rare). However, when I'm in unfamiliar territory, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. And if I so much as crack one, it's all over.

It's kinda like what going through the guy's head in this demetri martin skit:
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/ind ... -reception

(except that instead of rats, in my mind it's restraining orders)



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22 Aug 2010, 3:06 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Stellar wrote:
I'm sorry if I appeared to be cold and harsh. I was just being blunt; its not a personal attack on anyone. What I meant to convey if that guys have to go out there and actually approach women in order to have a chance. I know they don't find it to be easy, but how else are they going to meet women? I'm just saying that women can't do all of the work in starting a friendship, or more.

I know having normal social contacts is a tough task for a lot of people. I am one of those people. I hate the phone, I don't even like going out to gatherings of any kind, and again, I hateee the phone. I would rather not have a phone but it's just a lot more convenient for emergencies and I need one for the places I volunteer at. I am constantly having to email or text or telephone, and I dread it most of the time. Anyways, point is that I understand what you're saying, because I find it emotionally draining to keep up unnecessary social relationships.

I'm not saying that you guys can't be nerds or whatever else you call yourselves. A lot of women actually like guys who are great with electronics and who are really smart. These guys are probably "my type," if I even have one. I'm only saying that you guys can't really expect to get laid or have a relationship if you don't put your self out there to at least a few women. I'm not saying that because women are shallow; its because we don't have a directory of all the guys in our town, so if you never go out and never introduce yourself, we may or may not know that you even exist.

It's okay to be awkward or nervous. Most of us aren't going to think you're creepy just because of that. Practice is still good though, because it desensitizes you a little tiny bit. Rejection is bound to happen to everyone, and getting over the fear of rejection is part of learning how to talk to the opposite sex (or the same sex) comfortably.


And I'm sorry for sounding like a total dipshit in my last post. I'm just really, really tired of hearing the same "get out there" advice over and over again.

It's not the actual talking that's an issue with me. Once I know the situation is safe, I can actually do okay conversationally. It's getting to that point where I know it's safe that's the hard part. In a familiar setting surrounded by friendly people (or at least people I know), it's easy to talk to strangers. I've done it in my church repeatedly (now the hard part is finding women my age who would attend a church... it's rather rare). However, when I'm in unfamiliar territory, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. And if I so much as crack one, it's all over.

It's kinda like what going through the guy's head in this demetri martin skit:
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/ind ... -reception

(except that instead of rats, in my mind it's restraining orders)


Restraining orders? Seriously?

Have you ever had one put against you?



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22 Aug 2010, 6:38 am

Ichinin wrote:
Everyone can get someone


that is total BS. i couldn't even get a prosty to take my money or even give me the time of day, the interaction was strictly along the lines of her saying to me, "eff off, creep." so plainly, by my own example, NOT everybody can get "someone." why do you think there are hermits? a hermit doesn't become a hermit because it seemed like a good idea at the time- but is a hermit because all other options have been absent from his life. so enough with the horatio alger stuff.



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22 Aug 2010, 6:42 am

foreveryoung wrote:
This article pretty much sums up my thoughts. He obviously watches Married With Children.

No one, including myself or the article writer, is proclaiming Sodini, a hero. He was a nutcase. But there is something wrong with a society that doesn't reward the guy that works his a$$ off and plays by the rules, and allows emotionally and physically abusive men to get all the women they want.


+1QFT :idea:



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22 Aug 2010, 6:47 am

auntblabby wrote:
Ichinin wrote:
Everyone can get someone


that is total BS. i couldn't even get a prosty to take my money or even give me the time of day, the interaction was strictly along the lines of her saying to me, "eff off, creep." so plainly, by my own example, NOT everybody can get "someone." why do you think there are hermits? a hermit doesn't become a hermit because it seemed like a good idea at the time- but is a hermit because all other options have been absent from his life. so enough with the horatio alger stuff.

I agree that some peoples path is different from others and some people dont find anyone. I dont think this is a modern phenomena though as in times past their was many batcholors and spinsters and lots and lots of convents and monesterys.

I think it causes people added pain haveing pressure put on them to find a relationship and 'messages of inadequacy' if they cant. I think this is mainly due to capitalisms wish to sell products similar to the messages of the perfect body used to sell things.

I think the solution is so not 'hate' blogs and bitterness though. I think one solution to all this pain is love, love of the self and love of others, acting with compassion and integrity.

lastly a note of optimism, my uncle a very aspie batcholor who had been always single and lived with his mother till aged 55, met a nice librarian lady when he was 60 and was married within 6 months and is very happy. So while their is life there is hope!



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22 Aug 2010, 11:06 am

auntblabby wrote:
why do you think there are hermits? a hermit doesn't become a hermit because it seemed like a good idea at the time- but is a hermit because all other options have been absent from his life. so enough with the horatio alger stuff.


Ok, I grant that there are some that seem to not even be able to get friends and live in a difficult situation which really isn't helping. Traditionally, when i'm thinking "hermit" i think of a person who is tired/sick of people and decides to put distance between society between him/herself and the rest of the world, or maby to go and do something in peace and quiet. But i've never thought about being a hermit as a "good idea at the time".


lotusblossom wrote:
lastly a note of optimism, my uncle a very aspie batcholor who had been always single and lived with his mother till aged 55, met a nice librarian lady when he was 60 and was married within 6 months and is very happy. So while their is life there is hope!


You call that optimism? a tale about someone who has almost lived a full life at his parents place and finally finding love at the autumn of his life? I call that "a note of making-you--jump-out-the-window-crying". Sorry, but that is NOT what you want to hear when you are 20-something and are just becoming aware that you have problems finding someone to share life with.


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22 Aug 2010, 11:54 am

HopefulRomantic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Stellar wrote:
I'm sorry if I appeared to be cold and harsh. I was just being blunt; its not a personal attack on anyone. What I meant to convey if that guys have to go out there and actually approach women in order to have a chance. I know they don't find it to be easy, but how else are they going to meet women? I'm just saying that women can't do all of the work in starting a friendship, or more.

I know having normal social contacts is a tough task for a lot of people. I am one of those people. I hate the phone, I don't even like going out to gatherings of any kind, and again, I hateee the phone. I would rather not have a phone but it's just a lot more convenient for emergencies and I need one for the places I volunteer at. I am constantly having to email or text or telephone, and I dread it most of the time. Anyways, point is that I understand what you're saying, because I find it emotionally draining to keep up unnecessary social relationships.

I'm not saying that you guys can't be nerds or whatever else you call yourselves. A lot of women actually like guys who are great with electronics and who are really smart. These guys are probably "my type," if I even have one. I'm only saying that you guys can't really expect to get laid or have a relationship if you don't put your self out there to at least a few women. I'm not saying that because women are shallow; its because we don't have a directory of all the guys in our town, so if you never go out and never introduce yourself, we may or may not know that you even exist.

It's okay to be awkward or nervous. Most of us aren't going to think you're creepy just because of that. Practice is still good though, because it desensitizes you a little tiny bit. Rejection is bound to happen to everyone, and getting over the fear of rejection is part of learning how to talk to the opposite sex (or the same sex) comfortably.


-Anyways I'm not writing this at my computer, so ill end the message here.


lol ....I am not saying that women have to magically detect those guys and call them , this is unfeasible. Nor I am trying to find excuses for anything but I am telling you why some of us can never get girlfriends : one needs friends and a normal social lifestyle before having a gf.

Step 1: having a normal social life , friends.
Step 2 : Gf usually come as a result of step 1.

many of us can't even get pass the step 1.


The "meeting a stranger and then date her' scenario only happens in movies. In life, it's rarely the case.
Online dating sucks , the gender ratio makes its success rate ridiculous.

So before telling those guys ''go out there and actually approach women in order to have a chance'' , you need to know what's the status of their social life , telling that to someone with no friend and no social life is like telling someone without oars to move the boat in water .
Their problem is usually more complicated and deeper than just 'not approaching women enough' , at least that's my case.



Boo,

I hope you find a girlfriend who suits you. My take on Stellar's post is if you don't try - then you won't succeed.

I am an NT woman who got my heart ripped out nearly three months ago. I have spent my entire summer as a hermit because the breakup devastated me. I do have friends in town but I have socialized with them very minimally because I have been depressed.

Now I think I am ready to throw my hat back in the ring and in the next month (when I meet someone I have been talking to on the phone), knowing full well, I risk getting hurt again.

For me the biggest failure is not trying. I have failed many times in dating and other endeavors but somehow I dust myself off and try again.

Hope springs eternal. Without hope - we have nothing!

Just my thoughts!

LL




I can see the moral of your story , but I can't see how your case is similar to mine.

First, you are not me.

Second, you and me are not of the same gender , and that changes a lot, your social requirements for attracting the opposite sex is a bit different than my social requirements.

And third , regardless of the gender difference, what you have achieved after just 3 months is something that I have failed to achieve in a decade. You made someone interested in you (in case if he's being genuine) and call you on phone frequently , I never even got that far.

Comparing yourself to me is like comparing apple to orange.



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22 Aug 2010, 12:30 pm

Ichinin wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
why do you think there are hermits? a hermit doesn't become a hermit because it seemed like a good idea at the time- but is a hermit because all other options have been absent from his life. so enough with the horatio alger stuff.


Ok, I grant that there are some that seem to not even be able to get friends and live in a difficult situation which really isn't helping. Traditionally, when i'm thinking "hermit" i think of a person who is tired/sick of people and decides to put distance between society between him/herself and the rest of the world, or maby to go and do something in peace and quiet. But i've never thought about being a hermit as a "good idea at the time".


lotusblossom wrote:
lastly a note of optimism, my uncle a very aspie batcholor who had been always single and lived with his mother till aged 55, met a nice librarian lady when he was 60 and was married within 6 months and is very happy. So while their is life there is hope!


You call that optimism? a tale about someone who has almost lived a full life at his parents place and finally finding love at the autumn of his life? I call that "a note of making-you--jump-out-the-window-crying". Sorry, but that is NOT what you want to hear when you are 20-something and are just becoming aware that you have problems finding someone to share life with.

Well it was directed at AuntBlabby and he and I are both much older than 20!

I find it uplifting to think of someone finding happiness when they thought they had no chance, something to look forward to.

It doesnt mean to say that you would not find someone before then, its just to say while there is life there is hope, which I find uplifting.

different people find different things inspiring, and what inspires 31 year old women is not going to be the same as what inspires 20 year old men.



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22 Aug 2010, 12:31 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
HopefulRomantic wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Stellar wrote:
I'm sorry if I appeared to be cold and harsh. I was just being blunt; its not a personal attack on anyone. What I meant to convey if that guys have to go out there and actually approach women in order to have a chance. I know they don't find it to be easy, but how else are they going to meet women? I'm just saying that women can't do all of the work in starting a friendship, or more.

I know having normal social contacts is a tough task for a lot of people. I am one of those people. I hate the phone, I don't even like going out to gatherings of any kind, and again, I hateee the phone. I would rather not have a phone but it's just a lot more convenient for emergencies and I need one for the places I volunteer at. I am constantly having to email or text or telephone, and I dread it most of the time. Anyways, point is that I understand what you're saying, because I find it emotionally draining to keep up unnecessary social relationships.

I'm not saying that you guys can't be nerds or whatever else you call yourselves. A lot of women actually like guys who are great with electronics and who are really smart. These guys are probably "my type," if I even have one. I'm only saying that you guys can't really expect to get laid or have a relationship if you don't put your self out there to at least a few women. I'm not saying that because women are shallow; its because we don't have a directory of all the guys in our town, so if you never go out and never introduce yourself, we may or may not know that you even exist.

It's okay to be awkward or nervous. Most of us aren't going to think you're creepy just because of that. Practice is still good though, because it desensitizes you a little tiny bit. Rejection is bound to happen to everyone, and getting over the fear of rejection is part of learning how to talk to the opposite sex (or the same sex) comfortably.


-Anyways I'm not writing this at my computer, so ill end the message here.


lol ....I am not saying that women have to magically detect those guys and call them , this is unfeasible. Nor I am trying to find excuses for anything but I am telling you why some of us can never get girlfriends : one needs friends and a normal social lifestyle before having a gf.

Step 1: having a normal social life , friends.
Step 2 : Gf usually come as a result of step 1.

many of us can't even get pass the step 1.


The "meeting a stranger and then date her' scenario only happens in movies. In life, it's rarely the case.
Online dating sucks , the gender ratio makes its success rate ridiculous.

So before telling those guys ''go out there and actually approach women in order to have a chance'' , you need to know what's the status of their social life , telling that to someone with no friend and no social life is like telling someone without oars to move the boat in water .
Their problem is usually more complicated and deeper than just 'not approaching women enough' , at least that's my case.



Boo,

I hope you find a girlfriend who suits you. My take on Stellar's post is if you don't try - then you won't succeed.

I am an NT woman who got my heart ripped out nearly three months ago. I have spent my entire summer as a hermit because the breakup devastated me. I do have friends in town but I have socialized with them very minimally because I have been depressed.

Now I think I am ready to throw my hat back in the ring and in the next month (when I meet someone I have been talking to on the phone), knowing full well, I risk getting hurt again.

For me the biggest failure is not trying. I have failed many times in dating and other endeavors but somehow I dust myself off and try again.

Hope springs eternal. Without hope - we have nothing!

Just my thoughts!

LL




I can see the moral of your story , but I can't see how your case is similar to mine.

First, you are not me.

Second, you and me are not of the same gender , and that changes a lot, your social requirements for attracting the opposite sex is a bit different than my social requirements.

And third , regardless of the gender difference, what you have achieved after just 3 months is something that I have failed to achieve in a decade. You made someone interested in you (in case if he's being genuine) and call you on phone frequently , I never even got that far.

Comparing yourself to me is like comparing apple to orange.



Mr. Boo:

No doubt our ages, genders, personal experiences, etc. and all that are different.

The thrust of my point is about not giving up. Being a Comeback Kid of sorts - against all odds even after you feel you have been decimated.

Maybe it's all about tenacity - hanging in there even when you are fighting your own trepidation and reluctance due to the fear of another failure.

I think sometimes you just have to say WTF and just try again if what you want is worth the effort to you. It's taking a calculated risk of sorts in which you make an assessment if the possible gains are worth the costs of the effort. Obviously, it's a personal choice.

Yes, I am fortunate that I have a special friend. But the odds are all against us - (900 miles apart, he is losing his job due to imminent layoff, I am selling my home in a dreadful market, etc.) - but I think taking the risk is worth it.

I think you qualify as the tenacious type because you are still trying even after 10 years. And I bet you are still hanging in there because you think it is worth the risk.

Just my thoughts



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22 Aug 2010, 1:30 pm

RICKY5 wrote:
ToadOfSteel wrote:
It's not the actual talking that's an issue with me. Once I know the situation is safe, I can actually do okay conversationally. It's getting to that point where I know it's safe that's the hard part. In a familiar setting surrounded by friendly people (or at least people I know), it's easy to talk to strangers. I've done it in my church repeatedly (now the hard part is finding women my age who would attend a church... it's rather rare). However, when I'm in unfamiliar territory, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells. And if I so much as crack one, it's all over.

It's kinda like what going through the guy's head in this demetri martin skit:
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/ind ... -reception

(except that instead of rats, in my mind it's restraining orders)


Restraining orders? Seriously?

Have you ever had one put against you?


No, but that's because I'm not dumb enough to go out there and subject myself to that possibility...



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22 Aug 2010, 5:02 pm

lotusblossom wrote:
My uncle a very aspie batcholor who had been always single and lived with his mother till aged 55, met a nice librarian lady when he was 60 and was married within 6 months and is very happy.

Yeah, right. He must realise that a later-age "relationship" cannot be what a relationship should be about. I didn't get together with someone until the age of 35, and was so scarred and embittered by then, that no-one and nothing can compensate for the damage that has been done. He must feel downright cheated.



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22 Aug 2010, 5:11 pm

BPalmer wrote:
lotusblossom wrote:
My uncle a very aspie batcholor who had been always single and lived with his mother till aged 55, met a nice librarian lady when he was 60 and was married within 6 months and is very happy.

Yeah, right. He must realise that a later-age "relationship" cannot be what a relationship should be about. I didn't get together with someone until the age of 35, and was so scarred and embittered by then, that no-one and nothing can compensate for the damage that has been done. He must feel downright cheated.

well he appears to be the happiest man alive and grins from ear to ear all the time. He was never this happy before. They get on really well and do everything together and seem very 'loved up'. I think he cant beleive his luck to capture someone so lovely as she and have her love him back.