The Nice Guy Dileema

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Cheers for the advice, I will do that.

Hmm, you might be right. I'm not sure I need protecting though, I can make my own decisions. It feels like a form of censorship to me. You're probably right though. Thanks.

Katzefrau, please explain the diffrence between dominance and confidence. I honestly want to hear your perspective on it.

Regarding whether "all women lie" or side with men who display "confidence", that is not the issue. The fact is that enough women lie to render the rest dubious. For instance, if you manage to verify that 5% were being honest with you when rejecting you, whereas 30% were clearly lying, the remaining 65% will be in doubt and it would be perfectly reasonable to assume they are lying as well, simply because they don't personally criticize or oppose those 30%.

Also, I don't seek to have women in my life, for the reasons stated above.

As you might hopefully read from the quote, I was using that as one example of one trait. For several examples of other traits, please see my original post.
I could proceed with more examples of sh**-testing, but that deserves a thread of its own.

IMO, the whole idea everyone seems to have about it all being a game and having to manipulate your partner is utterly stupid. It sounds cliche, I know, but I prefer to just be myself and the girl I like has a problem with it then they aren't right for me. Simple.

As to whether or not the "nice guy" stereotype even applies to me, I can't say I'm too sure. It seems to have a lot of different attributes associated with it, as evidenced by the many, many threads like this one with all these theories.

From my experience and from just talking to girls about the subject, I can tell you that a lot of girls appreciate guys who are nice and kind, but the main problem is that they get stuck in the "friend zone" too easily.

You have nice guys and "nice guys".
But real nice guys won't call themselves nice guys.They would be also happy for you even if you have another.
There was a webcomic of it but I have to search for it again.(I will post it once I have it again)

You mean this webcomic?

But at the same time, there's guys that can't just get with someone they've just met (or don't know at all). I, for one, am afraid of the unpleasant consequences, no matter how unrealistic they seem to a rational mind.

From the same webcomic;

It's not that you are "a match for nobody". You had a girlfriend, which is better than many people on this forum. The problem was keeping her afterwards, from what your posts suggest.

Yeah, that's my thought process too. Fear of rejection. I think a lot of Aspies have this because bad social experiences.

If I was a match for my girlfriend, I would have been able to keep her...

So one of your girlfriends wasen't your match, who cares? The world is full of girls. One of them is likely to be right for you.

this WINS!! ! seriously, this is the most hilarious thing i've ever read on WP!! !! i agree with all of your points, but this one had me rofling. it is a great visual!

make new friends. it's what i do, all the time, because people can only handle me (or i can only handle them) for a certain number of years. so i have learned to see friendships as something flexible and possibly time-limited. i don't know anybody else who keeps the same friends their whole lives either. it's a fact for all of us.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a question older than Ancient Rome. One gender's social queues are different from the other . . . one side raised to consider the physical, the other is emotional. I'll admit being in the passive nice guy category (has interest, but fears acting on it) as opposed to the assertive nice guy (acts on interest, but takes the situation personally). It almost seems as though we raise our kids to fear the opposite sex, then expect them to just suddenly drop it and date by a certain age . . . sadly, a lot of them still maintain said fears from childhood.

With respect to those frightfully accurate comics posted earlier, the latter is the one that seems to hang in my mind: HOW ON EARTH CAN ANYONE TELL IF SOMEONE IS INTERESTED IN THEM? Then, if you do act on your hunch, how can you tell if she's going to want to talk to you, and not try to call the police on you for harassment? Society has pretty much made the good men (I'll use this to describe the guys who are nice, but go about things in an acceptable fashion and aren't necessarily disheartened with rejections) cautious to the point of inaction.

I'll admit to having tried to date a few times (trying again 10 years after a one month face to face), weeding out what it is I need to know and how to go about it. I'm currently talking to a woman via OKCupid (but she's the one who messaged me first), so how that will turn out, I honestly don't know (though she seems to enjoy our discussions and continually says that, "[I] ain't right" when I type a comment that makes her laugh lol). Dating seems to be another form of social networking, so it's going to be awkward for most people here anyway . . . you either try or give up. The choice is always ours.

As for assuming what women want, you're right, I assume what they want. And logically, it doesn't make sense to put people into one group and say that the same characteristics apply to them all.

But here is the thing, it is easy to say "What if?" concerning all this. What if some women want the shy, quiet guy, some want the playful, friendly guy? What if women want this or that? What if?

I'm starting to believe that saying "What if" is a fleeting attempt to try and rationalize a difficult situation without getting upset about it. A temporary distraction to avoid becoming sad or angry about the situation.

From my experience, when I got rejected, I wasn't thinking "What if?" "What if she just wasn't into to me." "What if she is busy doing something else, etc". I was thinking "What is wrong with me?", "What did I do that was wrong?" and "Why did she reject me?"

Like I said, it is easy to say "What if", but it is just a momentary distraction from trying to figure out what went wrong. It would be nice if we all thought rationally about rejection and thought "Oh, he/she just wasn't into my personality or interests" or "It's not a big deal". I believe we do get to that point eventually, some faster than others, but I'm willing to bet if one was rejected a lot, they wouldn't hold onto the "What if" optimism all the time. Being rejected constantly lowers self confidence in oneself and causes them to be disillusioned, not to mention makes them question whether it is worth the effort getting hurt over and over again.

As for the 15 guys I mentioned, no, they weren't supposed to be nice guys. And yes, I was using physical attractiveness as something guys look for, because they do. Not all of the 15 guys would hit on the attractive gal and act like a pig, but I'm willing to bet you that they would take interest in her because of her physical beauty, and then consider personality/interests secondly.

As for the unattractive girl they "blatantly ignore" as a romantic possibility, I've personally seen this happen before. There is a gal I know that is physically unattractive who is a part of a youth group that I am apart of, and no guy takes any interest her romantically, and really only one guy talks to her and is friendly with her. They may not admit to it, but a lot of guys place a moderate to large emphasis on physical beauty, and if they find a girl very unattractive physically, they won't consider them a possibility romantically, even if she has a great personality. At most, they will be her friend, but that's it.

As for women being interested in personality traits, I'll explain my views on it. I'm not ignoring the fact that a woman might be interested in a man because he's physically attractive. But it is my belief that women look for guys who can emotionally stimulate them in positive ways, who will listen to them and care about them, and other things along the lines on personality/interests, things with an emotional value. This would explain why women like confident and self-assured guys.

In order for guys to have a chance with a woman romantically, they have to open up and talk with a woman. And yes, they are evaluated based on what they say.

Interesting question. I know when there is a kind of contact of the eyes. Sounds weird, but you just know. I had that with a young woman earlier, pity she was going so fast in the other direction.

I think the worry about police action or whatever is a rather far fetched fear in 99% of cases. As long as you don't touch her inappropriately, and don't push it if it's clear she isn't interested, you should be fine.